Irina also hated skating at firstOriginally Posted by seniorita
So it's ok.
Irina also hated skating at first
[QUOTE=cosmos;399953]I think the article is based on facts. However, besides the article being incomplete, its point of view is clearly American. Nothing wrong with that, because it is American news paper. Anyway, it lacks inner point of view. YuNa's fans are trying to deliver it and a few missing facts.
Well, it is YuNa Forum, not Yunabot Forum. I am sure you ever visited it. Do you think it deserves to be called YuNabot Forum?[/QUOTE
My initial post on this topic pointed out the article was only an excerpt and that there could be many happy episodes told in the book. I also mentioned there are cultural differences to consider. The strangest thing is that this is nothing new to American skating fans or families that have raised a talented musician, athlete, etc. We know this story all to well. It seems (to more than just me here) that Yuna's mother has taken the "skating mom" to a new level. Maybe there was no other way for a Korean family to handle this due to training circumstances in Korea. It is not like I am without sympathy for Yuna (she surely had a very unhappy childhood) and remember Orser and Wilson commenting they had never seen a young girl who would never smile when they first started to work with Yuna.
Whether I approve of what is described as the "obsessive" behavior of Yuna's mother should not be an issue. It seems for some the issue has to be that we must love Yuna, and now members of her family - or be told we are wrong. Maybe I am WRONG - but I am just expressing my opinion.
Whatever, thanks for your comments, I respect their civilty. It seems fair to say I am sorry about the "Yunabot" forum remark. I am sure it is a good place to learn eveything about Yuna.
I understand your point.
I am not trying to persuade you to love her mom. But, I want to explain what Korean Moms are like. Frankly, I have mixed feelings for Korean moms. Often, I hate them, their excessive dedication and excessive sacrifice for their kids. (I am a man). I believe they make Korea harder to live in. I don't know it is culture or gene that make Korean mom. They are determined to make their kids an elite. They drive kids to a series of homeworks and private lessons.
You think YuNa was unhappy in childhood. But, I am not so sure. She just didn't laugh a lot. (probably not at her home). That was YuNa we knew years ago. She changed a lot in the last few years. At least, I am sure that skating practice didn't make her unhappier than other kids, because they also had hard (or harder) time doing some kind of study, homework, private lessons while she was skating.
I don't think it is a good education and even effective. Actually, I hate it. Ms. Park is just one of few successful moms who raised her kid to world level. I suspect she has something. I think the reason is not that she is more extreme than others but that she is smarter and wiser although she also drove YuNa to hard practice. Look at YuNa. YuNa is not only a great skater but also a calm, thoughtful, and reasonable young lady behaving properly. She also has sense of humor. An obsessive and extreme mom can not raise such a daughter.
Don't you think you give too much credit to her mum, or to parents in general? What's with all the children who grew up in orphanages, half a dozen foster homes or with negligent parents? Not all those kids turn out to be screw-ups. It's not all about the parents. So maybe Kim (and Lang) aren't "good" and "successful" people because of their parents, but despite their parents?
There is something wrong because it's biased and presents the wrong picture of Yu-Na's family.
It's not about a NEGATIVE image, but getting the WRONG image. And this article illustrates a WRONG image.Some of Yuna's fans can't stand to hear anything that might be perceived as being negative towards their favorite skater. Or her mother
The article makes it seem like her mom only cared about Yu-Na and completely ignored her sister. It's wrong. Someone who has read the book gave the other side of the picture, which the article completely ignores. In the NYT article, it said Yu-Na's mom discouraged her sister's wish to become a singer and left it at that. The article didn't go on further to explain what happened afterwards: Yu-Na's mom discouraged Yu-Na's sister at first not only because of financial reasons, but because it's hard to survive in the entertainment world. However, when she heard her daughter sing and recognized talent, she did her best to help her daughter achieve her goal by landering her an audition for an agency. But Yu-Na's sister had changed her mind already and was set on going to nursing school, which she did and now she's a happily a nurse.
This is only one example of the writer presenting only certain facts to push his/her own biased view of Yu-Na's mom. Once you see the entire picture, it's really not as bad as the writer makes it out to be and we would probably all understand the situation Yu-Na's mom was in and why she made the choices she did.
Are you serious? You really believe everything the newspaper tells you just because it wins awards? Do you not realize journalists from major newspapers can be biased and not everything they write is factual?So we are told to disregard an article from a major, award winning newspaper and instead read posts from the Yunabot forum.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Yunabot forum? It's the same forum you go to, mujamba. You know, the place where every couple of weeks you start a fight over nothing and no one understands where you're coming from. Then you cowardly disappear for a couple days without replying back to any of our questions. And you keep coming back and start up the same pattern every couple of weeks.
Since you visit that forum so often, are you calling yourself a Yunabot? What you need to understand is the difference between a bot and a fan. There aren't any bots at Yunaforum because they're banned. What that forum does have is fans of Yuna and contrary to your misconception, they're not even all Korean. Many of the fans who are vocal on that forum are not Korean nor live in Korea. And they're not bots, they're fans.
Is the book by Yuna's mom also published in English? I just watched a documentary series about Yuna's development on youtube. I have to say I really admire Yuna's mom, for her dedication and perseverance, in one scene she said : " I don't want me to be the obstacle (or in the way) for Yuna to fulfill her talent". It may not be the exact wording, but it's her meaning that she doesn't want to waste her daughter's talent because of lack of support from her. For me that's mother's love.
Different families will make different choices depend on the family resource and philosopy on raising a child. I do think now that it's very hard for anyone to succeed in skating, tennis, swimming, or golf, etc. It really takes a whole lot if not a village to raise a champion. That's why not everyone can be a champion.
Orphanages would be better than obsessive mom. Don't you think so?
Isn't this subjective to some extent? From the Korean reporter who wrote the article - to the reactions of various people who have read it.
You state clearly what is right and what is wrong. But that is only your opinion and it is subjective and open for debate. Some may tend to view this article differently than you do. I don't know how you or anyone else can be so sure about this topic. I never claimed to be right and stated several times I was offering thoughts and opinions. I even said I might be wrong.
You on the other hand seem to be trying to force people into believing only your opinion is right and any other thoughts are wrong.
I think you make some very good points but I don't believe everything you say about this is necessarily true. And even if what you say is true, other people do have a right to their own feelings about what they read.
Accepting your thoughts as the only possible interpretation of the article feels very "bottish" to me.
That is not even close to what she said. I suggest you read her thoughts again
As a Korean and Yu-Na fan (but bigger Mao fan- gasp! Heh), I just wanted to add my 2 cents. When I was younger, my Korean friends and I would complain about our "typical Korean parents". We were pushed to excel in academics. If I brought home a B, screaming would ensue. I remember thinking that for my mom, it was never encouragement, per se- if I got a bad grade, it was absolutely never, "it's okay- you can do better next time". It was disappointment and anger instead, and that frustrated me for a long time. It was only when I got older that I realized that, if not for my mom, I would never be where I was now. I would never have gotten in an Ivy League college if not for the way she raised me and stressed the importance of academics. I'm a lazy sort, and sometimes (well, most of the time, really), just working for myself is not enough. If I know that someone will be disappointed and angry if I don't do well, I step it up. And now, I've realized, I do it for myself, but wouldn't have learned to do that if not for my mom. That's not to say that other parenting styles are ineffective, of course, just that for me personally, it brought out the best in me. And, as I realized later, it was all for my well-being, so that I could be happy in the future.
I do agree that these kinds of moms are not just Asian, and that they come from all different cultures. But there's something I learned this past year that distinguishes Asian parents. There are different kinds of parenting, one of them called authoritarian, in which the parent is dominating, demands obedience from the child, and creates highly structured rules. In Western cultures, this kind of parenting has negative effects on the child- he or she is withdrawn, lacks intellectual curiosity, and is socially incompetent. But a study actually found that Asian parents, while they score high on the authoritarian scale in Western tests, actually have a different kind of authoritarian parenting- it has more of a focus on TRAINING, which is very different. This kind of parenting actually has no negative effects on the child whatsoever. So I do think there are cultural differences here that the article doesn't touch on that would make these moms seem less...obsessive and controlling and more like instilling a sense of training and discipline. And that's not to say that only training and discipline are instilled, either- in addition to that, my parents made sure that my brother and I were taught about morality, about happiness, about love, about kindness and compassion and selflessness, and about laughter. It's just about bringing the best out of your child that you can. With that said, am I going to be the same way with my children? Heck no. But it worked for me, and I understand why now.
Sorry I wrote a novel- this topic is just something I've been thinking about my entire life. In terms of Yu-Na, I do believe she would have quit a long time ago if not for her mom. I don't know her, so I don't know what would make her happy in the end, but from what I've seen, she seems like a fighter. And having been so talented, and so close to being the top of the world in skating, I think she'd always have regretted not continuing had she stopped. I'm not defending her mom, especially if she really did skip her other daughter's graduation. I'm just saying that I understand it. Also, maybe I'm just being naive, but I really want to believe this quote I read somewhere that said that Yu-Na's mom always felt badly for Mao and her mom when Yu-Na won. She felt almost embarrassed that Yu-Na was taking away something that Mao wanted. Is that true full-fledged stage mom behavior? Can we even use those terms in her case? I'm just not sure we can judge Yu-Na's mom based on the limited information we have about her. But maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe her mom really is that bad, and Yu-Na is miserable. But there's something about her freedom and expression across the ice that makes me doubt that she hates skating so much. But I'm not going to pretend I know her or her mom. I just hope she enjoys the next year as much as she can- isn't she quitting no matter what after the Olympics?
Last edited by bellarina; 06-11-2009 at 12:53 PM.
I don't understand your comment.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Ballerina.
All right fine. After reading the NYT article and then reading the additional comments from those who have read the book and give further explanation on comments in the article, what are your thoughts about Yu-Na's mom?
Is it dedication or obsession? Is she really a stage mom, who is trying to vicariously live through her daughter's life? Did she in fact ignore her other daughter's life, to the extent the article tries to paint?
I'm really curious, how would everyone else act in this situation? You have a limited amount of money, you also have limited resources because ice rinks and coaches aren't that available, but you have a young daughter who has the potential to be someone great in a sport that is almost non-existant in your country. And it's not you, yourself, who wants your daughter to become a great figure skater, but it's what other people are telling you she can become. (I got this from Jasmine@FSU: Doug Leigh saw Yuna when she was very young, he said that Yuna would be the first world champion from Korea.) The coaches and higher up people who know the sport are telling you she's amazing for her age and she needs to further develop her talent with better resources. What would you do?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Ballerina.
Yes, thankyou bellerina. I enjoyed your post. It was informative, thoughtful and reflective in a way that I think many members here can understand and relate to.
Last edited by janetfan; 06-11-2009 at 01:31 PM.
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