Why is flexibility so appreciated? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Why is flexibility so appreciated?

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I don't remember Kristi's so well from her competitive days but remember seeing her skating as a pro and she did this whole segment sort of yawning while she was doing a spiral sequence.

The coolest show program of all time! :love::love::love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-QNtxwpTSE

Yes, I agree that Kristi used her spiral to much grester effect as a pro than when she was competing.

That being said, female figure skaters in their quest to be balllerinas on ice learn to turn out the knee out and point their toes. That is what is needed to have a ballet-like spiral and attitude spin (layback or not).

I think it's that "turning the knee out" thing that distinguishes the really good layback positions (Alissa Czisny, Angela Nickodinov) from the ones that are not so good, like the Yu-na Kim and Michelle Kwan pictures posted in this thread.
 

Andalusia

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
I think flexibility makes a skater stand out. If Rachael had exactly what she has now, but with Caroline's super-bendy moves thrown in, people probably wouldn't be complaining about how boring she is. I also think that flexibility is sometimes mistaken for artistry. When good to excellent flexibility is paired with musical expression and feeling (some of Caroline's exhibitions, Michelle's many programs) - that's what appeals to me most.

OTOH, good artistry coupled with flexibility sub-standard enough that it promotes an unfinished quality and poor line - that I find distracting (case in point: Yu-Na).
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
OTOH, good artistry coupled with flexibility sub-standard enough that it promotes an unfinished quality and poor line - that I find distracting (case in point: Yu-Na).

Do you feel the same way about male skaters?

How about skaters with good artistry from the 1990s or 80s or earlier, before extreme flexibility was in vogue?
 

Andalusia

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Do you feel the same way about male skaters?

How about skaters with good artistry from the 1990s or 80s or earlier, before extreme flexibility was in vogue?

I'm not an avid follower of men's skating, so perhaps I'm not the best person to ask that question. ;)

However, I have seen John Curry, and I thought he was wonderful to watch. He didn't have extreme flexibility, but he was expressive, had excellent line, and every movement was precise and finished. That's good enough for me. Hyper-flexibility is just a bonus if the skater has it.
 

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
OTOH, good artistry coupled with flexibility sub-standard enough that it promotes an unfinished quality and poor line - that I find distracting (case in point: Yu-Na).
There are really graceful and artistic lady skaters who are not very flexible - Lepistö comes to my mind, Cynthia Phaneuf...

And among the men we don't have that many overly flexible guys, they all seem to be at pretty much the same level.
 

Andalusia

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
There are really graceful and artistic lady skaters who are not very flexible - Lepistö comes to my mind, Cynthia Phaneuf...

And among the men we don't have that many overly flexible guys, they all seem to be at pretty much the same level.

Yes, and I think Lepistö and Phaneuf are artistic. Same goes for Meier and Yu-Na. If they had better flexibility (I'm thinking about Lepistö and Yu-Na in particular), they would be even more aesthetically pleasing to watch.

Extreme flexibility does induce 'Wow!' moments, but it isn't an absolute must for me. As long as the flexibility isn't poor enough that it impedes the promotion of elegance (and everything else is taken care of, too), I'll watch.
 

silver.blades

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Country
Canada
A good line is very important in figure skating IMO and flexibility, in general leads to a good line. However, there are skaters with good lines and weaker flexibility, like Lepisto and Phaneuf as have been mentioned and skater with good flexibility and weak lines, Mira Leung comes to mind. She has excellent flexibility, but she doesn't hit many nice positions.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I dont mind much if ladies dont have super flexibility, but if i feel they struggle in bielman or I spins or spirals it takes away some of their elegance. On the other hand I dont know if excellent flexibility can help the image of an average skater.
In case of a top skater, flexibility like sasha's is always a wow. At her first international years when her name was mentioned her flexibility was the first that came in mind, before I could remember any program of hers.
In men it is always a plus as long as it looks effortless, I loved plush's donut spin before he got injured, and I like Johnny's flexibility in any of his spins, they look very 'soft' , and I enjoyed alot Sawyer's Y spin and arab. spiral. If they are not flexible at all it bothers me in mostly in shotgun spin. But I can think of a skater who was sort of flexible and it didnt add to his skate, Othman.
 

feraina

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
OTOH, good artistry coupled with flexibility sub-standard enough that it promotes an unfinished quality and poor line - that I find distracting (case in point: Yu-Na).

I feel the exact same way as you! Yu-na can lapse into a poor line at times, and it's very distracting for me -- it takes me right out of the moment.

Same is true for me with male skaters. When it's especially poor line, and the skater looks like he doesn't even care, it makes me cringe while watching his program.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
In skating flexibility per se isn't essential, it's what skaters and choreographers do with it. A beautiful spiral timed to coincide with an emotional peak in the music seems to make time stop. It's a moment of beauty and peace in a program that's otherwise crammed with complex athletic feats. The appeal is almost universal (apart from a few critics on skating boards :cool:). And it can't be easy to do on ice or we would see a lot more perfect positions.

If that's all the skater can do, she's not a real skater, just an acrobat. So IMO flexibility is not necessary, it's just a very big plus.

I guess I'm one of the few who dislikes that move where Shiz sticks up her leg and lets go. To me that's just a show-off trick that schoolgirls everywhere do in their bedrooms. OK, I grant it's harder on ice, but the position per se is ugly, to me. It compares unfavorably to the comparable movement in ballet, where the dancers slowly unfurl their leg with the music as a peak moment in a pas de deux. Whereas the arabesque spiral in skating is like the ballet move, plus it flies across ice.

But I bow to her Ina Bauer.

ETA: I kinda hate to say it, but these flexi-moves are really only for women. It must be biological - a revelation of the crotch area to display fertility and desirability. It can't be coincidental that in ballet they usually come in the pas de deux.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I guess I'm one of the few who dislikes that move where Shiz sticks up her leg and lets go. To me that's just a show-off trick that schoolgirls everywhere do in their bedrooms.

Schoolgirls everywhere can maintain their leg at an unsupported verticle 180 degree split? Where did you go to school? :)
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
I think flexibility makes a skater stand out. If Rachael had exactly what she has now, but with Caroline's super-bendy moves thrown in, people probably wouldn't be complaining about how boring she is. I also think that flexibility is sometimes mistaken for artistry. When good to excellent flexibility is paired with musical expression and feeling (some of Caroline's exhibitions, Michelle's many programs) - that's what appeals to me most.

OTOH, good artistry coupled with flexibility sub-standard enough that it promotes an unfinished quality and poor line - that I find distracting (case in point: Yu-Na).

Exactly. I don't think it's fair to harp on the less flexible skaters. It's one thing if they're forcing their bodies to contort into certain positions for difficulty and then, the criticism is rightly so. However, if they're doing positions that are good for their physical capability and it's beautiful to watch, why harp on the fact that they're not flexible. Also being flexible doesn't mean it's necessarily a good thing. We have:

Flexible and pretty
Flexible and run for the hills
Nonflexible and pretty
Nonflexible and run for the hills.

If the position isn't run for the hills, do we need to harp on it? If it is, alright then. For example, Irina's hydrant is what we'd all agree to be run for the hills. Sasha's hydrant is the ideal, IMHO, being the originator, she's the best at it.

I just don't agree with judging skaters' flexibility or lack of on one another. I think it's appreciated, when it appeared with the baby ballerinas, because it was a "WOW" thing. Gymnasts and dancers are more associated with that. Now, I think people appreciate flexibility because of the lines that are produced.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Schoolgirls everywhere can maintain their leg at an unsupported verticle 180 degree split? Where did you go to school? :)
This is GIRL stuff. You guys aren't supposed to know. :laugh:

But to answer your q: it's schoolgirls who want to be ballerinas, cheerleaders, gymnasts, and figure skaters - ie most girls (at least in my day).
 

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
skater with good flexibility and weak lines, Mira Leung comes to mind. She has excellent flexibility, but she doesn't hit many nice positions.
Yuko! I find her adorable - but hello? Incredibly flexible but her line is just weak! It costs them many points for sure, e.g. they never get much GOE on the Throw Triple Loop despite landing it solidly on one foot nearly every time - but her landing position is just so weak and sloppy :mad: (Plus, isn't it kind of embarrassing that the 6 ft dude towering over her has a much better line and great extension?)

I kinda hate to say it, but these flexi-moves are really only for women. It must be biological - a revelation of the crotch area to display fertility and desirability. It can't be coincidental that in ballet they usually come in the pas de deux.
How about male gymnasts: Picture 1, Picture 2, Picture 3, Picture 4, Picture 5... Nemov is so hot.
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
But to answer your q: it's schoolgirls who want to be ballerinas, cheerleaders, gymnasts, and figure skaters - ie most girls (at least in my day).
werent girls in your class that wanted to be models, hairdressers or astronauts?bizarre ...:laugh:
Arakawa's move for the hills (for me) is her camel spin and the transition to donut spin.

ah nemov :love:
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
werent girls in your class that wanted to be models, hairdressers or astronauts?bizarre ...:laugh:
Oh yeah, you're right. I'm from Florida, so duh!

Arakawa's move for the hills (for me) is her camel spin and the transition to donut spin.
Good heavens, yes. Hers and almost everyone else's. Do they get negative GOE for that? I think they should.
 
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