06-21-2009, 11:32 AM
Those are three gorgeous positions. I don't see how anyone can object to the term "flexible." If flexible means bendy, look how much their backs are bent backward at the lower spine.
To me, it seems like Sasha's position in these pictures is harder. She not only bends backward but also twists. (Or is she cheating the position, compared to Mirai?)
Look how muscular Sasha's back is!)
06-21-2009, 11:50 AM
Here is a link to one of the lesser known devices invented by Mischin
to help Plushy develope his flexibility
06-21-2009, 11:51 AM
Not sure which is harder. I would think twisting sideways to pull the leg up might be a bit simpler than laying way back. I think Mirai and Caroline actually have a deeper back bend, while Sasha has a more open hip angle. I like how Sasha's forearm is parallel to her free leg, while most seem to do this position with elbow up, forearm perpendicular to ice. NO idea if one is easier/harder, or just a matter of preference. Seems like it would be harder to pull leg up with elbow down unless you are in a sideways lean. Either way, those positions require a very flexible back and open hip angle! I think the picture of Caroline's haircutter is a bit late and that she's transitioning into her beillmann. Mirai I think has one of the nicest haircutters around.
Last edited by MKFSfan; 06-21-2009 at 11:54 AM.
06-21-2009, 01:17 PM
An excellent display of Acrobatic positions. Tbere had to be a lot of backbend practices and stretches to get them. Should get lots of points for those tricks.
Originally Posted by MKFSfan
06-21-2009, 03:26 PM
“No, no, Gumby – like this!”
Originally Posted by janetfan
06-21-2009, 03:51 PM
Yes, they certainly do. Just like they get lots of points for other tricks that they practiced hard for, like triple Salchows.
Originally Posted by Joesitz
It is all part of the "balanced program" idea of the IJS. It's not just jumping tricks, it's tricks of all kinds that rack up the points.
At Four Continents, Caroline Zhang scored 4.0 points (same as a triple toe) for her level four layback spin and 4.10 points for her level four combintion spin, including GOE.
At the World Team Trophy she scored 4.20 and 4.50 (same as a triple Salchow) for the same two elements.
If Sasha comes back, these "acrobatic bonus points" will be a big help against the triple-triple girls.
06-21-2009, 06:31 PM
It's interesting that seemingly nobody really knows why they find flexibility this fascinating. Maybe someone else will try?
Many of the examples of flexible skaters are very impressive and fascinating. I've never managed anything more than a simple split, especially my back isn't very flexible at all. I sort of admire people who can do that crazy stuff.
Anyways, I'm still trying to figure out why so many people love above-average flexibility in figure skating a la Sasha Cohen or Caro Z. I want to clarify here that I realize that a certain extent of flexibility is required to hit aesthetic positions in spirals. But to me flexibility above that necessary range doesn't necessarily make a skater more exciting or more interesting, aside from the wow-factor the first time you see a move.
06-21-2009, 07:56 PM
I think flexibility (which every athlete has) or they wouldn't be athletes, is extraordinary for those fans who do not watch Cirque du Soleil and who never took an acrobatic class as a co-training method to improve their figure skating tricks. Acrobatic classes are a must in this era of competitions. Be assured that Acrobatics on Ice will garner high GoEs if done well (and also in the PC scoring.)
(and btw, taking acrobatic classes will get you quite a bit of ballet positions but only the classical positions and all are used by muscle power - no dragging your foot up above your head.
Get thee to a tough acrobatic teacher, Ladies!!!
06-21-2009, 08:35 PM
I think people like to see great extention and better than average flexibility in spirals and spins for the same reason that they like to see triple jumps more so than double jumps. Higher, faster, stronger.
06-21-2009, 08:40 PM
leave no stone unturned
thats funny.. cause i ve seen cirque du soleil about 3- 4 times, and i have been to acrobatic lessons, (they were not called acrobatic though and not for fs but another sport) but i m always amazed with sasha's flexibility or carolin's layback cause it is not what a normal training can teach you!And it is different to watch it in a circus show than an actual competition. And more interesting than rhythmic gymnastics' flexibility cause it includes skating at the same time.
It is amazing for most people, cause the ones who havent tried to bring their foot to their ear they look it as super wow(i cant think of a decent word now), and the ones who have tried know how it is to bring it upthere (and keep it) and are amazed by their easiness to do so on ice.
06-22-2009, 01:13 AM
Last edited by KayMil01; 06-22-2009 at 01:17 AM.
06-22-2009, 08:35 AM
Extensions are not the same as Super Flexibility (to use the FS definition). A beautiful extension such as in a spiral with changes of edging does not need to be in the 180 degree position. It's a beautiful move of body to skate, and because there is muscle involved, no hands are needed.
Come to think of it, I never saw a 180 degree spiral changing edges. If there is one on youtube, please give link.
06-22-2009, 11:49 AM
At the rink. Again.
180 degree change of edge spiral - see Shizuka's Olympic performance in statue of Liberty position (it maky have only been 165 degrees , but still!), Czisny's COE Charlotte spiral from Nationals, Zhang's COE spiral before she goes for the foot grab, and Sasha's COE spiral circa 2006 (she may have only been @ 160 degrees, though )
06-22-2009, 06:33 PM
06-22-2009, 08:15 PM
Thank you for the link, HCO - Mea Culpa. Zhang can and does change edge in Charlotte Spiral. That SP is so endearing of her. Can we just call her Queen of the Flexiility Elements? I would not object.
Originally Posted by HCOSurfer
btw - Will we ever see a Charlotte Spin?