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Thread: The 4CC in Question

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    The 4CC in Question

    So many comments about the 4CC on the Expansion of the GPs thread, that I think it needs its own thread.

    My own feelings about the competition are that there is too much of a range of countries for travel to event sites. Euros is much easier.

    But skaters do manage to get there and compete. The only two 'stars' that missed were Kwan and Plushenko both of whom, I believe were skating in pain and saving their comps for more important events.

    It's quite a championship and gives another chance for skaters to test out the international judges on programs before Worlds/Olys. Other than the travel, I see no problem with it.

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    Here's a riddle: What is a major competition Michelle and Sasha never won?

    I think the 4CC would be an excellent chance for Michelle and Sasha to go before the ISU judges before the Olympics. Of course, very often, the 4CC team is different from the Olympic team.

    Even if they don't make the Olympic team, this will be a great opportunity to pick up one more shiny gold medal before they retire.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    The only two 'stars' that missed were Kwan and Plushenko...
    Although Plushenko was born in Asia (in Khabarovsk Krai, 20 miles from the Chinese border), that still counts as "Europe" for ISU purposes. (Israel is another "European" country that is technically in Asia.)

    So Pushenko was not eligible for 4C's. But he did skate in Europeans eight times, scoring five golds and three silvers.

    This year I don't think any of the top skaters will be interested in doing Four Continents. It is squeezed in between the various national championships and the Olympics, with little time to prepare.

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    The only reason why 4CC exists at all is because the ISU created its ISU World Ranking system. If Europeans were to be granted ranking points under the system, then another comparable Regional competition would be needed to allow non-Europeans to accumulate points.

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    In addition, there are also cash prizes.

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    The cash prizes and Four Continents both predated the world ranking system.

    If prizes were to be given for the European Championships, it was only fair to offer a comparable opportunity to skaters from non-European federations.

    So the cash prizes were a reason for the creation of Four Continents. The world ranking system was something else that came into existence later.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    If the "B" comps are considered in the tally for World Ranking and most of them are in Europe, why not other less than major comps in the 4CC grouping have them in their own areas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    why not other less than major comps in the 4CC grouping have them in their own areas?
    Geography. It would be harder to get an international field to come to a competition if the average distance to the next country is measured is a few thousand miles rather than a couple hundred at most.

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    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Although Plushenko was born in Asia (in Khabarovsk Krai, 20 miles from the Chinese border), that still counts as "Europe" for ISU purposes. (Israel is another "European" country that is technically in Asia.)
    This has nothing to do with 4CC, but Russia is more comparable to Turkey, as both have parts that are in Europe and parts in Asia, and for sports purposes are considered European countries. IIRC, in Russia, everything west of the Urals is considered part of Europe - am I right?

    Israel is obviously in Asia, but has competed in sports as part of Europe because of political reasons for a long time. Israeli athletes cannot travel to many Asian countries, while athletes from other countries in Asia, esp. in the Middle East, will not compete against Israelis. Although not an issue in figure skating (where we have other forms of politics ), I guess it makes more sense to have all athletes compete in one place, that is, as part of Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    If the "B" comps are considered in the tally for World Ranking and most of them are in Europe, why not other less than major comps in the 4CC grouping have them in their own areas?
    Non-Europeans compete in events like the Finlandia and the Nebelhorn, which Alissa won last year.

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    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    Non-Europeans compete in events like the Finlandia and the Nebelhorn, which Alissa won last year.
    And Suzuki won the other one... Which once again proves that European ladies suck big time.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    Non-Europeans compete in events like the Finlandia and the Nebelhorn, which Alissa won last year.
    True. Those two events will get a smattering of non European skaters but there are many others that qualify for the ISU Rankings.

    It does give the European skaters a chance to air their new program with ISU judges. But then again it seems that it doesn't matter that much to the N.Americans and Asians.

    It's nice for Verner, Kostner, S&S, and D&S for the points towards making more money.

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