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Thread: Cinquanta seeks to test track team competition for Olympics

  1. #31
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I have often wondered about that. Why is skating so much more taxing than other sports?
    I have never wondered about that. If it's a Sport, one does not have to worry about doing an event. If one does, one should not do the event.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I have often wondered about that. Why is skating so much more taxing than other sports?

    Boxers fight a three-minute round, rest for one minute, then have to go ouit and do it again -- ten times in a row. Skaters consider themselves ill used if they have to compete twice in a month.
    I, too, have often wondered about this. So far the best I can come up with is 1. it's the culture that's grown up around the sport -- "the season is too long, we have too much to do, etc." and it has become an axiom; and/or 2. some skaters diet continuously, restricting calories so they are extremely slim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nylynnr View Post
    I, too, have often wondered about this. So far the best I can come up with is 1. it's the culture that's grown up around the sport -- "the season is too long, we have too much to do, etc." and it has become an axiom; and/or 2. some skaters diet continuously, restricting calories so they are extremely slim.
    I once heard Peggy Fleming talk about performing and training and she said that a skater in peak condition can skate their SP and LP several times a day, every day for a week and it would be no problem at all for them.
    What she said can be very difficult is to skate at an event every 4-6 weeks over a 6-8 month period. The reason that is so demanding is because of the amount of training time a skater needs to put in to keep in competition shape. It is the rigors of training over a six to 8 month season that wear out skaters. It is NOT the competition itself.
    Skating at an event, (aside from nerves). is the easiset thing a skater has to do.
    The reason most boxers only fight 1 or 2 fights a year is because of the training time required to get into peak condition. Once peak condition is reached they have a fight. After the fight they typically will rest for a month or longer. This let's them re-charge their bodies. A skater appearing at a competitive event every 4-6 weeks over a 5-6 month period will have to keep in peak condition during that entire period. After a while, this wears on your body and in some cases your mind too.
    Jeremy said at Worlds he had no pop in his jumps. He was like a boxer in the 10th round - his legs were gone.
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    Last edited by janetfan; 06-28-2009 at 09:28 AM.

  4. #34
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    Let's just keep it a little girl's sport, and I will continue to eke out the positive athletes from the mix.

  5. #35
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I have often wondered about that. Why is skating so much more taxing than other sports?

    Boxers fight a three-minute round, rest for one minute, then have to go ouit and do it again -- ten times in a row. Skaters consider themselves ill used if they have to compete twice in a month.
    Well in boxing, you only fight a couple fights a year. Why is it that football players can only play one game a week? In my opinion, skating a four minute long program is one of the most tiring experiences in sports. Not to mention the training, which is some of the most intensive training out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Well in boxing, you only fight a couple fights a year. Why is it that football players can only play one game a week? In my opinion, skating a four minute long program is one of the most tiring experiences in sports. Not to mention the training, which is some of the most intensive training out there.

    I agree with you that the training is very intensive.
    But do you honestly believe 4 minutes of skating is as tiring as running a marathon? What about Nordic events? Or long distance swimming events. What about a cyclist doing one of the mountain stages at the Tour de France? Or a time trial race? A skater in top shape can skate their 4 minute program several times within an hour's time frame. I am not saying it is easy - but an active midfielder in a soccer/football game can cover over 10 miles in a game, much of it heavy sprinting.
    There is a concentration factor to consider. Former chess champion Bobby Fischer was known to sweat off 5-7 pounds in a long, tough chess match. Most of the time he was sitting down. (Maybe he should have changed his brand of deordorant )
    Maybe some of the skaters here can give us their take on this. But Frank Carrol is known to have his skaters do their programs straight through several times each day as they get close to a competition.
    That doesn't sound as tough to me as fighting a 10 round boxing match or many other things I can think of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I agree with you that the training is very intensive.
    But do you honestly believe 4 minutes of skating is as tiring as running a marathon? What about Nordic events? Or long distance swimming events. What about a cyclist doing one of the mountain stages at the Tour de France? Or a time trial race? A skater in top shape can skate their 4 minute program several times within an hour's time frame. I am not saying it is easy - but an active midfielder in a soccer/football game can cover over 10 miles in a game, much of it heavy sprinting.
    There is a concentration factor to consider. Former chess champion Bobby Fischer was known to sweat off 5-7 pounds in a long, tough chess match. Most of the time he was sitting down. (Maybe he should have changed his brand of deordorant )
    Maybe some of the skaters here can give us their take on this. But Frank Carrol is known to have his skaters do their programs straight through several times each day as they get close to a competition.
    That doesn't sound as tough to me as fighting a 10 round boxing match or many other things I can think of.
    Sure there are many other sports which exert more energy than a four minute program. However, those sports are not performed by themselves out on a sheet of ice on a quarter of an inch blade. Skating takes intense concentration and a minor lapse in concentration can spell disaster. From my experience in skating, it is one thing to do multiple run-throughs in a practice session and a whole other experience when doing that same program in a competition. The entire week you are at a competition is exhausting, especially the day of the event.

    I am not in favour of a Team Event being added because in this sport you have essentially one shot to win a medal. There are second chances or opportunities to win other medals- like in Gymnastics or Swimming for example. To me, that is what makes this sport so exciting. Seeing who can handle the pressure, exhaustion, and nerves and put down an amazing performance when it counts.

  8. #38
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I once heard Peggy Fleming talk about performing and training and she said that a skater in peak condition can skate their SP and LP several times a day, every day for a week and it would be no problem at all for them.

    What she said can be very difficult is to skate at an event every 4-6 weeks over a 6-8 month period.
    That is an interesting perspective. In Peggy's day the skaters were required to prepare for only two or three competitions a year. Now the model is precisely "an event every 4-6 weeks over a 6-8 month period." No wonder so many skaters blow off the Grand Prix, Four Continents, etc., in an Olympic year.

    In sports like basketball and hockey, the teams play a lot of games one after another in the regular season. Then come the playoffs and suddenly they stop loafing and clowning and start playing "playoff ball."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That is an interesting perspective. In Peggy's day the skaters were required to prepare for only two or three competitions a year. Now the model is precisely "an event every 4-6 weeks over a 6-8 month period." No wonder so many skaters blow off the Grand Prix, Four Continents, etc., in an Olympic year.
    Peggy also mentioned that injuries seemed to be on the rise - and that skating under CoP was more demanding than under 6.0.
    Add in all the events and no wonder we have so many tired skaters at Worlds.
    Why not just drop the GPF in an Olympic year. It feels more like a beauty pageant than a real skating competition imo.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    There is a concentration factor to consider. Former chess champion Bobby Fischer was known to sweat off 5-7 pounds in a long, tough chess match.
    It is interesting to watch the strategies at the big open chess tournaments, like the U.S. Open. The senior masters who you know are going to be fighting it out for the champiopnship in the last couple of rounds tend to lay low at the beginning, offering "gentlemen's draws" even to some of the weaker players that they are matched up against. Not only does this strategy conserve your strength, but it also puts you up against easier competition in the middle rounds.

    Meanwhile the wood-pushers, even though they play only one game per day, or at most two, are utterly exhausted at the end of a week or ten days and are just begging for it please to be over (trust me on this. )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It
    Meanwhile the wood-pushers, even though they play only one game per day, or at most two, are utterly exhausted at the end of a week or ten days and are just begging for it please to be over (trust me on this. )

    I will trust you on this one
    But what is a "wood pusher" - and would you be one of them at a chess tournament?

    Do you know where the competitions bewteen - um....Kasparoff and "Big Blue" (or whatever the name of the computer was that he played against?)
    Was it true that the computer was being secretly assisted by a grand master or two without Kasparoff's knowledge?
    Thanks for any infos

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Do you know where the competitions bewteen - um....Kasparoff and "Big Blue" (or whatever the name of the computer was that he played against?)
    Was it true that the computer was being secretly assisted by a grand master or two without Kasparoff's knowledge?
    Thanks for any infos
    I heart Kasparov! If he had been a figure skater, I would have made a Kasparov banner at some time. (wasn't the name of the computer Deep Fritz?) Plus Kasparov is sexy. Probably only because he is really smart (I dig smart men) and, duh, brave!

    Ahh, completely off topic post. I should be sleeping, but I have a horrific stomach ache.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    I heart Kasparov! If he had been a figure skater, I would have made a Kasparov banner at some time. (wasn't the name of the computer Deep Fritz?) Plus Kasparov is sexy. Probably only because he is really smart (I dig smart men) and, duh, brave!

    Ahh, completely off topic post. I should be sleeping, but I have a horrific stomach ache.
    I don't know or remember about "Deep Fritz" or "Baby Blue Bomb" or whatever the computer's name was. Or how the tournament turned out. I think Kasparoff won one and lost one against the computer. Not sure if there was a third match.
    I seem to remember Kasparoff accused the tech controllers for the computer's team of cheating. Sound familiar
    Hope you feel better soon.
    Please avoid eating watermelon seeds and chocolate candles.

  14. #44
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    But what is a "wood pusher" - and would you be one of them at a chess tournament?
    A wood-pusher is a bad chess player -- he is not really playing the game, he is just pushing wood around the board.

    A "fish" is a wood-pusher who gets suckered into playing for money, especially in Central Park. Speaking of Bobby Fischer, when he was a teenager he used to hustle for quarters at the Manhatten Chess Club. I never beat him (knight odds).

    Do you know where the competitions bewteen - um....Kasparoff and "Big Blue" (or whatever the name of the computer was that he played against?)
    Here are the complete games, on the IBM site.

    http://www.research.ibm.com/deepblue/watch/html/c.shtml

    In 1994, Kasparov squared off against the IBM program called "Deep Thought" (a play on "Deep Throat." ) Kasparov won handily.

    Two years later, the new program was called Deep Blue. Kasparov lost the first game -- the first time a computer had ever beaten a world champiopn. But Kasparov rallied and won the match, 4-2.

    The rematch was in 1997. This time Deep Blue won 2 games. Kasparov won 1, and there were three draws.

    Deep Fritz was a competitor of Deep Blue. An early version of Fritz beat Blue in the early 90s. A decade later, after IBM lost interest in chess-playing proigrams, Fritz drew with Kramnik in 2002, drew with Kasparov in 2003, and finally beat Kramnik in 2006.

    Interestingly, the newer versions of chess programs are pretty much all the same. The improvement has come in the hardware. Chess computers can now analyze billions of positions per second, so they don't really have to "think" much any more.

    Was it true that the computer was being secretly assisted by a grand master or two without Kasparoff's knowledge?
    No. At that time Kasparov would have crushed any other (human) grandmaster.
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-28-2009 at 10:34 PM.

  15. #45
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    PS. Here is the five-time World Champion, playing the same opening (the Sicilian Defence) that Kasparov used in games 1 and 3 of the 1996 match.

    It's MK's move.
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-29-2009 at 08:07 AM.

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