Cinquanta seeks to test track team competition for Olympics | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Cinquanta seeks to test track team competition for Olympics

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
How do they do it in gymnastics, in the case of a country that cannot field a full team but has one or two indivual athletes who are competitive, if not necessarily medal contenders?
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
How do they do it in gymnastics, in the case of a country that cannot field a full team but has one or two indivual athletes who are competitive, if not necessarily medal contenders?

Good question. They probably have a qualifying round. Is there a "Yuna Kim" type gymnast that comes from say Mongolia and he/she is the only gymnast from their country - who just happens to be good enough to be in the finals in either the individual apparatus or all around?
I guess if they are not part of a team they get their chance with others and if their marks are high enough they qualify for the medal round.
There is the team competition and final, the individual apparatus competitiion and final, and for the cream of the crop, the All- arround competition.
 

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Regardless of what the head twits think, skating is not a team sport. (synchro excepted, of course)

Isn't sychro supposed to be a test event in 2014?

I agree. Why bother creating a new "team event" when there is already an awesome team event in synchro! I've heard synchro is supposed to be a test event as well in 2014. I hope it happens.
 

liketotally

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Good question. They probably have a qualifying round. Is there a "Yuna Kim" type gymnast that comes from say Mongolia and he/she is the only gymnast from their country - who just happens to be good enough to be in the finals in either the individual apparatus or all around?
I guess if they are not part of a team they get their chance with others and if their marks are high enough they qualify for the medal round.
There is the team competition and final, the individual apparatus competitiion and final, and for the cream of the crop, the All- arround competition.

In the qualifying round of gymnastics, although they do compete as teams (to qualify for the team finals), gymnasts who don't have a team are grouped together and are able to qualify for the different events as an individual.
 

childfreegirl

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
The obvious way to create more competitions (of the kind that can create stars) is for new singles formats that aren't as punishing physically as single skating has become.

Solo dance is an obvious choice (and I note that USFSA is starting to take that seriously).

I'd also like to see a competition with less jumps (but with jumps) that was still demanding technically that more mature skaters with better overall technique but without the biggest jumps (anymore) could excell in.

I like those ideas. Maybe do an artistic or interperative program. The kind that they used to have at pro-ams a couple of years ago.
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
particle man
cinquanta, did come out about 2004-2006 a bit before the olmpics did call michelle a loser,
but in this case with sasha, it is almost like a (hidden agenda) that came out.
that the isu was going to cheat for Sasha irina at the olympics to win but because she couldn't stand on her feet and skated like she did and Shizukawa came out and skated like she did the judges couldn't give it to her despite her high pcs scores.
and especially at the worlds, the commentators stated that the worlds was sasha'a, they would have cheated for her to win, they even overmarked her double foots, urs , to the point if she still stood up she would have won.
at world in 2006 sasha didn't have an olympic medalist to contend with for the title. it was hers for the taking, all she had to do was stand up- she couldn't even do that.

Where as Michelle as I stated previously they (the isu, judges ) didn't cheat for her and 2nd at olympics but won world 98, both michelle and irina in 2002 both moved up irina from 2nd to 1st (debatable) michelle from 3rd to 2nd.
cause he stated 1st to 2nd and worlds to 3rd . in other words she went down from the olympics not up like michelle and irina and a few other skaters who show up at worlds.
like 2003 when sarah came in 6th.
 

visaliakid

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Country
United-States
If they do it they should either use other skaters or else do it after the individual events are done. No one will want to wear themselves out & risk losing an individual medal.

Regardless of what the head twits think, skating is not a team sport. (synchro excepted, of course)

Isn't sychro supposed to be a test event in 2014?


Seeing as it is those "Head Twits" who hold the power, they very well may decide otherwise. I detest Cinquanta, but in this case I think a team skating event in the Olympics and Worlds (if done right) can become a fan favorite and rake in more coin for the IOC, ISU and hosting federations.

If they hold the team event after the individual events they can utilize the olympic qualifying skaters who competed individually and with more support from the skaters. The determination of the size and number of teams competing could follow the same criteria as set forth for the World Team Trophy. I would prefer that they have 8 member teams comprised of 2 Men, 2 Ladies, 2 Pairs and 2 Ice Dancers. Then make it a real team competition by having only 1 SP/OD and 1 FS/FD performed by each team. Make it the responsibility of each team captain to assign which skater/s would perform them, thus bringing strategy into the mix.

Constructing the Team event in such a fashion would mean:

1. No added extra expense or skaters in the Olympic Village
2. The testing and possible acceptance of Olympic Synchro Skating could go forth without being sidetracked.

I foresee Cinquanta pushing to make the team event an annual fixture at the World Championships. How it will be organized remains to be shaken out.
 

pista04

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
But why make them skate more than they already do? To me, the difference is that skaters skate their routines and are completely exhausted; in gymnastics, even stars like Nastia Liukin or Shawn Johnson do their 1-3 minute routine, then wait for an hour and have the energy to go again. Why not continue exactly as is, but tally up points scored by placing along the way, and at the conclusion of the Ladies free, which is usually the last skating event, proclaim the team medalists?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
To me, the difference is that skaters skate their routines and are completely exhausted; in gymnastics, even stars like Nastia Liukin or Shawn Johnson do their 1-3 minute routine, then wait for an hour and have the energy to go again.

I have often wondered about that. Why is skating so much more taxing than other sports?

Boxers fight a three-minute round, rest for one minute, then have to go ouit and do it again -- ten times in a row. Skaters consider themselves ill used if they have to compete twice in a month.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
If they do it they should either use other skaters or else do it after the individual events are done. No one will want to wear themselves out & risk losing an individual medal.
There are many fans world wide, and a few in America, that do not consider Figure Skating a little girl's sport. There are other disciplines and the athletes are capable of doing what athletes do. If it's too tough for the Ladies, they should not compete in this extra event.
 

nylynnr

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
I have often wondered about that. Why is skating so much more taxing than other sports?

Boxers fight a three-minute round, rest for one minute, then have to go ouit and do it again -- ten times in a row. Skaters consider themselves ill used if they have to compete twice in a month.

I, too, have often wondered about this. So far the best I can come up with is 1. it's the culture that's grown up around the sport -- "the season is too long, we have too much to do, etc." and it has become an axiom; and/or 2. some skaters diet continuously, restricting calories so they are extremely slim.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I, too, have often wondered about this. So far the best I can come up with is 1. it's the culture that's grown up around the sport -- "the season is too long, we have too much to do, etc." and it has become an axiom; and/or 2. some skaters diet continuously, restricting calories so they are extremely slim.

I once heard Peggy Fleming talk about performing and training and she said that a skater in peak condition can skate their SP and LP several times a day, every day for a week and it would be no problem at all for them.
What she said can be very difficult is to skate at an event every 4-6 weeks over a 6-8 month period. The reason that is so demanding is because of the amount of training time a skater needs to put in to keep in competition shape. It is the rigors of training over a six to 8 month season that wear out skaters. It is NOT the competition itself.
Skating at an event, (aside from nerves). is the easiset thing a skater has to do.
The reason most boxers only fight 1 or 2 fights a year is because of the training time required to get into peak condition. Once peak condition is reached they have a fight. After the fight they typically will rest for a month or longer. This let's them re-charge their bodies. A skater appearing at a competitive event every 4-6 weeks over a 5-6 month period will have to keep in peak condition during that entire period. After a while, this wears on your body and in some cases your mind too.
Jeremy said at Worlds he had no pop in his jumps. He was like a boxer in the 10th round - his legs were gone.
.
 
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i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
I have often wondered about that. Why is skating so much more taxing than other sports?

Boxers fight a three-minute round, rest for one minute, then have to go ouit and do it again -- ten times in a row. Skaters consider themselves ill used if they have to compete twice in a month.

Well in boxing, you only fight a couple fights a year. Why is it that football players can only play one game a week? In my opinion, skating a four minute long program is one of the most tiring experiences in sports. Not to mention the training, which is some of the most intensive training out there.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Well in boxing, you only fight a couple fights a year. Why is it that football players can only play one game a week? In my opinion, skating a four minute long program is one of the most tiring experiences in sports. Not to mention the training, which is some of the most intensive training out there.


I agree with you that the training is very intensive.
But do you honestly believe 4 minutes of skating is as tiring as running a marathon? What about Nordic events? Or long distance swimming events. What about a cyclist doing one of the mountain stages at the Tour de France? Or a time trial race? A skater in top shape can skate their 4 minute program several times within an hour's time frame. I am not saying it is easy - but an active midfielder in a soccer/football game can cover over 10 miles in a game, much of it heavy sprinting.
There is a concentration factor to consider. Former chess champion Bobby Fischer was known to sweat off 5-7 pounds in a long, tough chess match. Most of the time he was sitting down. (Maybe he should have changed his brand of deordorant :p)
Maybe some of the skaters here can give us their take on this. But Frank Carrol is known to have his skaters do their programs straight through several times each day as they get close to a competition.
That doesn't sound as tough to me as fighting a 10 round boxing match or many other things I can think of.
 

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
I agree with you that the training is very intensive.
But do you honestly believe 4 minutes of skating is as tiring as running a marathon? What about Nordic events? Or long distance swimming events. What about a cyclist doing one of the mountain stages at the Tour de France? Or a time trial race? A skater in top shape can skate their 4 minute program several times within an hour's time frame. I am not saying it is easy - but an active midfielder in a soccer/football game can cover over 10 miles in a game, much of it heavy sprinting.
There is a concentration factor to consider. Former chess champion Bobby Fischer was known to sweat off 5-7 pounds in a long, tough chess match. Most of the time he was sitting down. (Maybe he should have changed his brand of deordorant :p)
Maybe some of the skaters here can give us their take on this. But Frank Carrol is known to have his skaters do their programs straight through several times each day as they get close to a competition.
That doesn't sound as tough to me as fighting a 10 round boxing match or many other things I can think of.

Sure there are many other sports which exert more energy than a four minute program. However, those sports are not performed by themselves out on a sheet of ice on a quarter of an inch blade. Skating takes intense concentration and a minor lapse in concentration can spell disaster. From my experience in skating, it is one thing to do multiple run-throughs in a practice session and a whole other experience when doing that same program in a competition. The entire week you are at a competition is exhausting, especially the day of the event.

I am not in favour of a Team Event being added because in this sport you have essentially one shot to win a medal. There are second chances or opportunities to win other medals- like in Gymnastics or Swimming for example. To me, that is what makes this sport so exciting. Seeing who can handle the pressure, exhaustion, and nerves and put down an amazing performance when it counts.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I once heard Peggy Fleming talk about performing and training and she said that a skater in peak condition can skate their SP and LP several times a day, every day for a week and it would be no problem at all for them.

What she said can be very difficult is to skate at an event every 4-6 weeks over a 6-8 month period.

That is an interesting perspective. In Peggy's day the skaters were required to prepare for only two or three competitions a year. Now the model is precisely "an event every 4-6 weeks over a 6-8 month period." No wonder so many skaters blow off the Grand Prix, Four Continents, etc., in an Olympic year.

In sports like basketball and hockey, the teams play a lot of games one after another in the regular season. Then come the playoffs and suddenly they stop loafing and clowning and start playing "playoff ball."
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
That is an interesting perspective. In Peggy's day the skaters were required to prepare for only two or three competitions a year. Now the model is precisely "an event every 4-6 weeks over a 6-8 month period." No wonder so many skaters blow off the Grand Prix, Four Continents, etc., in an Olympic year.

Peggy also mentioned that injuries seemed to be on the rise - and that skating under CoP was more demanding than under 6.0.
Add in all the events and no wonder we have so many tired skaters at Worlds.
Why not just drop the GPF in an Olympic year. It feels more like a beauty pageant than a real skating competition imo. ;) :laugh: :yes:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
There is a concentration factor to consider. Former chess champion Bobby Fischer was known to sweat off 5-7 pounds in a long, tough chess match.

It is interesting to watch the strategies at the big open chess tournaments, like the U.S. Open. The senior masters who you know are going to be fighting it out for the champiopnship in the last couple of rounds tend to lay low at the beginning, offering "gentlemen's draws" even to some of the weaker players that they are matched up against. Not only does this strategy conserve your strength, but it also puts you up against easier competition in the middle rounds.

Meanwhile the wood-pushers, even though they play only one game per day, or at most two, are utterly exhausted at the end of a week or ten days and are just begging for it please to be over (trust me on this. :laugh: )
 
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