Help for FS-watching newbie | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Help for FS-watching newbie

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Wow, I am developing new appreciation for pairs...and falling in love with Gordeeva and Grinkov. Amazing!

I'm hoping the same happens for ice dance. But I just can't get into it because I don't know what actually to watch for - no throws and jumps. I guess this is the discipline where feet-watching is a must.
I think pairs is the discipline that was hurt the most by CoP, which is kind of ironic considering it was a pairs event that provided the reason for the change in the judging system. Dance IMO has mostly improved, and it's great that the "wait your turn" thing isn't as bad; in singles, there are some positive changes (spins) and some that aren't as good (upper body movement in step sequences is almost as evil as snooker during GPs). But pairs has gotten very cookie cutter, and while there are some good programs here and there (Robin and Aliona have had some good ones, and M/T had a beautiful SP this past season), it just seems a lot less creative and interesting.

Has anyone posted G/G's 1988 Olympic performances? Here's the SP. Was everyone skating to Carmen that year? And the LP; the video includes some of the warmup and they start around 2:50.

I've gotten much more inetersted in dance because there's more room for individuality and creativity. The top teams are usually quite different from each other, and while I don't always agree with the results, it's fun to watch.

And now, I have to confess to what appears to be the very worst thing a FS fan can feel; worse even than not really thinking Kwan was that great. Maybe because I didn't see it in real time... I never liked T&D's Bolero that much. There, I've said it! Now I will run and hide :p.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
And now, I have to confess to what appears to be the very worst thing a FS fan can apparently feel...

No, thinking that Kwan was not really all that great is the worst, and not liking T&D's Bolero that much is only the second worst. ;)
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
No, thinking that Kwan was not really all that great is the worst, and not liking T&D's Bolero that much is only the second worst. ;)
Hmm... I'll take your word for it, MM! :laugh:

I also committed the sin of writing that sentence badly, and you quoted me before I could fix it!
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
oh oh:rolleye:, i also think that their bolero was not that great and even worse than just great , maybe cause i didnt see it in real time also ?But I think Boitano was that great without seeing him in real time either.
Maybe because i dont like bolero music?
sorry:eek:
for kwan my opinion has not changed in years, she was/is that great:)
B where do you hide?can I join?
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
It has been said Ravel wrote "Bolero" to prove a point and win a bet. The point was that by using colorful and innovative orchestrational techniques he could take a simple melody and rhythm and repeat it over and over again - and still write a piece that would become a part of the modern symphonic repertoire. Ravel won the bet and next time you listen to Bolero you might consider what he is doing. It is not everyone's favorite music - but it was so innovative in it's time. After the premier performance, legend has it that a woman screamed at Ravel, " you are totally mad!" Ravel replied "you understand the music very well."
Ravel was one of the greatest orchestrators that ever lived.
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Others say that Ravel's neurological condition was in parts responsible for the repetitive nature of the Bolero.

There are many, many stories about Bolero. Ravel also said he never thought it would be played again after the premier. He also had a big fight with Toscanini over the tempos.
My story about the "bet" is one I learned from my orchestration teacher at music school. I don't believe for a second that his illness had anything to do with the way he wrote the piece. There are more stories about how he came up with the idea for the rhythmic pattern. He also wrote other works after Bolero and they are not limited or similar to Bolero - yet he was still ill.
But what is important to realize is Ravel never changes the rhythmic pattern, keeps to the same melody with very few modulations and through great orchestrational technique came up with a piece that has become a staple of the repertoire.
I am from Philly - and "Bolero" has long been one of the most famous works performed by our world renowned orchestra. Scheherazade was another - wonder if our conductors were skating fans (Stokowski, Ormandy, Muti, etc...)
 
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dinakt

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
I have decided to stop lurking and post, mostly because I am envious that you'll see so many fantastic performances for the first time!
With the giants like Browning, Yagudin, Lambiel it'll be worth it to watch everything available ( that is, if you like their style)
Here's a little more:
Browning SP, Worlds1991 ( "Hindu War God)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyoSJKjZums

Lighter side of Yagudin- SP Worlds 2000 (" Nutrocker")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuPCGUbz42c

Although I usually prefer competitive programs to exhibitions, sometimes exhibitions are amazing revelations.
Here are some:
Browning, the first man to land a quad, performs the most amazing Flamenco ("Nyah") - all footwork, no jumps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT3lfjFiydY

Lambiel- the most joyful piece of improvisation ever ( he had to change the EX at the last moment due to music repetition)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcGnq2kHd90
and a very different Stephane - Un Giorno Per Noi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVK4SL91rzI

Gordeeva/ Grinkov, once they turned pro. Vocalise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PoRZRVQyLo
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for joining us, and welcome, dinakt. Post often, post long! :agree:
 
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i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
This thread caused me to do some YouTube searching and I came across two of my favorite Kurt Browning's exhibition programs that I think are worth viewing:

1994
I was lucky enough to see this program live when I was eight. I was amazed by him them and still am now. This program is all about passion, passion, passion. Not to mention an amazing triple axel!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWWb7O1zhcQ&feature=related

1998
This program is where he landed a quad, ten years after landing the first one. And at the age of 32! :thumbsup: Amazing musicality, footwork, and body control. To me this program is a work of art!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tcy--wXe5w&feature=related
 

nashvilledancer

Spectator
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
And now, I have to confess to what appears to be the very worst thing a FS fan can feel; worse even than not really thinking Kwan was that great. Maybe because I didn't see it in real time... I never liked T&D's Bolero that much. There, I've said it! Now I will run and hide :p.

This is so funny! Bolero's not my favorite piece of music by a long shot, but that dance, in that year, in the context of what ice dance was at the time, was truly revolutionary. Until T&D, free dance programs as a rule were a grab-bag of unrelated pieces of music chosen to show versatility. Torvill and Dean's programs for the 2 years preceding the Olympics featured music in a variety of styles that all came from the same Broadway/West End score (Mack and Mabel one year, and Barnum the next). Their programs captured a mood or told a story. With Bolero, they were really innovating, pushing at the rules and the limits of the sport. The dance was pretty mesmerizing at the time--and very original.

My very favorite thing that T&D ever did, I think, was in a short film shown as a public television special, with Yo Yo Ma playing one of Bach's unaccompanied cello sonatas. One of the movements is on YouTube (starts with "Bach" recounting a tragic event from his life):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g-uf81SUko

My other favorite is this original dance rumba. Shows what good actors they are, and how they can capture the style of a particular dance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19CYCcmA2Y0

And who can forget:

Their original set pattern Rock and Roll--imagine doing this once, let alone three complete patterns!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEHsR679g1M

What a great resource this thread is--thanks for coming up with the topic!
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
My favorite routines of 'all time'

Michelle Kwan 1998 Nationals - both Rach SP and Lyra Angelica LP
Michelle Kwan 1996 Worlds - Salome LP
Chen Lu - 1996 Rach. LP
Chen Lu - 1995 Last Emperor
Kristi Yamaguchi - 1992 Oly's SP - Blue Danube
Sarah Hughes - 2002 Oly's LP (the only skate of her's that I've enjoyed.)
Sasha Cohen - 2006 Oly's SP

Alexei Yagudin - SP Winter
Brian Boitano 1988 LP Olympics

Torvill/Dean - 1984 Olympics Bolero


With regards to non-competition:
Torvill/Dean - Encounters, Red Hat
Kurt Browning's Brick House
Brian Boitano's Carousel Waltz (I think he did this in competition as well), Wild Elephants (Gap commercial song)
Kristi Y - Doop Doop, Bridge Over Troubled Waters, Some Day I'll Fly Away
Gordeeva/Grinkov - The Man I Love
Scott Hamilton - Hair, Figaro
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
This is so funny! Bolero's not my favorite piece of music by a long shot, but that dance, in that year, in the context of what ice dance was at the time, was truly revolutionary. Until T&D, free dance programs as a rule were a grab-bag of unrelated pieces of music chosen to show versatility. Torvill and Dean's programs for the 2 years preceding the Olympics featured music in a variety of styles that all came from the same Broadway/West End score (Mack and Mabel one year, and Barnum the next). Their programs captured a mood or told a story. With Bolero, they were really innovating, pushing at the rules and the limits of the sport. The dance was pretty mesmerizing at the time--and very original.

Thanks for such an informative post.
I have heard similar "what was so special about her" remarks refering to Janet Lynn. But to appreciate Janet or T & D one has to be familiar with the skating of their era and not just from the last 5-10 years.
It is important to acknowledge the skaters who brought about change to figure skating through their artistry and innovation. Their influence is still felt today and any newer skating fan could enrich their appreciation of figure skating by taking a little time to become more familiar with some of the skating legends of the past.
 

cvg16

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
I've started watching the ice dance videos, and I gotta say, they look fun. Might as well start with the most definitive program of them all (or so I've heard) Torvill and Dean's Bolero. Pretty cool moves, which I think (although Im not sure) would still be pretty cool if performed today.

Although what really caught my attention was the anissina/peizarat R&J program. So fast and seamless. I loved it.

Aesthetically, I'm starting to get ice dancing. For me, its beginning to feel like the very thing I can't do in ballet - freedom in movement where you almost float on your feet without ever stopping.

I think what I meant about not knowing what to watch for in ice dance is that I don't know how to judge a program's difficulty without the jumps and the throws.

I can't thank you guys enough for the suggestions! :)
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I have heard similar "what was so special about her" remarks refering to Janet Lynn. But to appreciate Janet or T & D one has to be familiar with the skating of their era and not just from the last 5-10 years.
Actually, as I was writing my "I don't like Bolero" post, I was thinking that I had the opposite reaction to Janet Lynn. It was a different era of figure skating, but the programs she skated remain beautiful and engaging, and her skating is still wonderful to watch. A shame she competed under a system in which figures counted for so much.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
yeah why have figures, it's only FIGURES skating... ;)
Actually, in many languages it's called either ice skating or artistic skating (e.g. patinage artistique in French). Janet's performances were certainly artistic, and not in the voidy sense of the word.

As for the figures - yes or no question, they were gone by the time I started watching. Maybe it would be better to bring those back, at least for younger skaters, but not to have a situation in which a skater builds up an insurmountable lead in the figures, like Trixie Schuba usually had (and deservedly so).
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
so the sport took the name from figures?Just curious..cause in other languages figures are not included in the name.

edit:sorry B i had not seen your message, i said the same
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
it was a skill and a showcase of control on the blade. I think it's extremely important, and I am not a figure skater...
 
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