Well, it depends what you're watching for.
Originally Posted by cvg16
If you want to understand the results of the sporting event, what the blades are doing on the ice is by far the most important thing.
If you just want to get aesthetic pleasure from watching the movement to music, then focus on whatever provides you the most pleasure.
Throwing tomatoes at corrupt judges
I'm going to do pairs:
The very first to mention should be Belousova & Protopopov: they were (are) true artists, IMO the best pair skaters ever.
Moonlight sonata EX 1970: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKSk0...eature=related
Unfortunately you can't find that much of them on youtube...
Gordeeva & Grinkov 1994 olympics EX:
"Lady Caliph" by Berezhnaya & Shikarulidze is probably the best pairs short program ever, but it has been mentioned already. Here's their swan lake SP from 1998: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJCGGBmCmf0
Shen & Zhao's Turandot from worlds 2003 is legendary as well, here's the nutcracker from 2004: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHQRfNDX3kI
And not to forget our reigning world champions savchenko & Szolkowy!
The mission, FS from 2007, unfortunately with terrible commentary that destroys the whole atmosphere and makes it difficult to enjoy the program...
Wow, I am developing new appreciation for pairs...and falling in love with Gordeeva and Grinkov. Amazing!
I'm hoping the same happens for ice dance. But I just can't get into it because I don't know what actually to watch for - no throws and jumps. I guess this is the discipline where feet-watching is a must.
Thanks again for the videos!
skating is not all about jumps and throws.
For ice dance, yes, watching the feet is extra important for understanding the results. It's also really hard to tell skating quality from video, especially tiny youtube videos, so don't worry if your preferences in terms of enjoyment have nothing to do with the results.
Ice dancers tend to be better than freestylers about skating to the music and performing for the audience, so it's easy to enjoy the dances on that basis without worrying about the sporting aspects.
The rules and trends have changed over the years. Originally ice dance was all about translating ballroom and other social dances to the ice. Then stage dance influences and theatricalism ended up having more of an impact in the 1980s, mostly as a result of the influence of Torvill and Dean.
This is the classic: Bolero
Here's a variety of some significant free dances from the late 80s and 90s; you can probably find at least one you enjoy:
Wilson and McCall 1988
Rahkomo and Kokko 1991
Klimova and Ponomarenko 1992
Usova and Zhulin 1992
Grishuk and Platov 1994
Krylova and Ovsiannikov 1997
Bourne and Kraatz 1998
Anissina and Peizerat 1998
Off the ice
I think pairs is the discipline that was hurt the most by CoP, which is kind of ironic considering it was a pairs event that provided the reason for the change in the judging system. Dance IMO has mostly improved, and it's great that the "wait your turn" thing isn't as bad; in singles, there are some positive changes (spins) and some that aren't as good (upper body movement in step sequences is almost as evil as snooker during GPs). But pairs has gotten very cookie cutter, and while there are some good programs here and there (Robin and Aliona have had some good ones, and M/T had a beautiful SP this past season), it just seems a lot less creative and interesting.
Originally Posted by cvg16
Has anyone posted G/G's 1988 Olympic performances? Here's the SP. Was everyone skating to Carmen that year? And the LP; the video includes some of the warmup and they start around 2:50.
I've gotten much more inetersted in dance because there's more room for individuality and creativity. The top teams are usually quite different from each other, and while I don't always agree with the results, it's fun to watch.
And now, I have to confess to what appears to be the very worst thing a FS fan can feel; worse even than not really thinking Kwan was that great. Maybe because I didn't see it in real time... I never liked T&D's Bolero that much. There, I've said it! Now I will run and hide .
Last edited by Buttercup; 06-26-2009 at 11:21 AM.
Bona Fide Member
No, thinking that Kwan was not really all that great is the worst, and not liking T&D's Bolero that much is only the second worst.
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Off the ice
Hmm... I'll take your word for it, MM!
Originally Posted by Mathman
I also committed the sin of writing that sentence badly, and you quoted me before I could fix it!
leave no stone unturned
It has been said Ravel wrote "Bolero" to prove a point and win a bet. The point was that by using colorful and innovative orchestrational techniques he could take a simple melody and rhythm and repeat it over and over again - and still write a piece that would become a part of the modern symphonic repertoire. Ravel won the bet and next time you listen to Bolero you might consider what he is doing. It is not everyone's favorite music - but it was so innovative in it's time. After the premier performance, legend has it that a woman screamed at Ravel, " you are totally mad!" Ravel replied "you understand the music very well."
Ravel was one of the greatest orchestrators that ever lived.
Last edited by janetfan; 06-26-2009 at 12:24 PM.
L'art pour l'art
Others say that Ravel's neurological condition was in parts responsible for the repetitive nature of the Bolero.
Originally Posted by janetfan
There are many, many stories about Bolero. Ravel also said he never thought it would be played again after the premier. He also had a big fight with Toscanini over the tempos.
Originally Posted by Medusa
My story about the "bet" is one I learned from my orchestration teacher at music school. I don't believe for a second that his illness had anything to do with the way he wrote the piece. There are more stories about how he came up with the idea for the rhythmic pattern. He also wrote other works after Bolero and they are not limited or similar to Bolero - yet he was still ill.
But what is important to realize is Ravel never changes the rhythmic pattern, keeps to the same melody with very few modulations and through great orchestrational technique came up with a piece that has become a staple of the repertoire.
I am from Philly - and "Bolero" has long been one of the most famous works performed by our world renowned orchestra. Scheherazade was another - wonder if our conductors were skating fans (Stokowski, Ormandy, Muti, etc...)
Last edited by janetfan; 06-26-2009 at 01:01 PM.
I have decided to stop lurking and post, mostly because I am envious that you'll see so many fantastic performances for the first time!
With the giants like Browning, Yagudin, Lambiel it'll be worth it to watch everything available ( that is, if you like their style)
Here's a little more:
Browning SP, Worlds1991 ( "Hindu War God)
Lighter side of Yagudin- SP Worlds 2000 (" Nutrocker")
Although I usually prefer competitive programs to exhibitions, sometimes exhibitions are amazing revelations.
Here are some:
Browning, the first man to land a quad, performs the most amazing Flamenco ("Nyah") - all footwork, no jumps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT3lfjFiydY
Lambiel- the most joyful piece of improvisation ever ( he had to change the EX at the last moment due to music repetition)
and a very different Stephane - Un Giorno Per Noi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVK4SL91rzI
Gordeeva/ Grinkov, once they turned pro. Vocalise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PoRZRVQyLo
Bona Fide Member
Thanks for joining us, and welcome, dinakt. Post often, post long!
Last edited by Mathman; 06-26-2009 at 08:59 PM.
This thread caused me to do some YouTube searching and I came across two of my favorite Kurt Browning's exhibition programs that I think are worth viewing:
I was lucky enough to see this program live when I was eight. I was amazed by him them and still am now. This program is all about passion, passion, passion. Not to mention an amazing triple axel!
This program is where he landed a quad, ten years after landing the first one. And at the age of 32! Amazing musicality, footwork, and body control. To me this program is a work of art!