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Thread: Thoughts About Choreography

  1. #16
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I don't think we are going to talk about the intracacies of choreographing, but we will mention which skater we like doing which choreographer's work.

    In this respect, isn't Tom Dickson doing Lutai's this year?
    We are all free to discuss whatever seems relevant at this topic.Since Janet had such a huge impact on skating it seems OK to talk about her - how natural she looked and the freedom we see in her skating that many think is missing today.
    Is there too much emphasis on choreo today? Why do we talk about "choreographed smiles" ? That can't be a good sign but it comes up fron time to time. Are there bonus points under CoP for a good choreo smile
    Last edited by janetfan; 07-03-2009 at 09:48 AM.

  2. #17
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Oh I understand that all too well.

    Whenever I see a topic on Janet Lynn, I always mention, the choreography of Lang and Tscherneychev. It makes sense if you look hard enough for it.

  3. #18
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    That would be Steuer himself. He is costume designer, choreographer, coach etc. in one.
    I thought that was the case, and I don't believe he gets enough credit for that part of his work. Aliona and Robin have had consistenly interesting programs, and they're not skating the same type of thing again and again. To me, it also looks as though he manages to put together programs that are difficult, but never beyond what his skaters can do. He's also done really well with Volosozhar and Morozov. Medusa, does he only do choreo for pairs?

    Who did B/S's Lady Caliph? Was it Moskvina? It wasn't as unique as City Lights but it was gorgeous.

    As others have noted, many of the choreographers who work with a lot of skaters can be hit with the right person and miss if the collaboration isn't a good one.

    I'm really curious what Denkova and Staviski do as choreographers, especially since they're not going to be choreographing ice dance this time; and to see more from Shae-Lynn Bourne.

  4. #19
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I thought that was the case, and I don't believe he gets enough credit for that part of his work. Aliona and Robin have had consistenly interesting programs, and they're not skating the same type of thing again and again. To me, it also looks as though he manages to put together programs that are difficult, but never beyond what his skaters can do. He's also done really well with Volosozhar and Morozov. Medusa, does he only do choreo for pairs?
    Yes, only for pairs. He is really talented I think...

  5. #20
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    As far as choreographers go, my vote goes to Sarah Kawahara, she's a genius in my humble opinion.

    The professional programs she choreographed for Oksana Baiul back in the late 90's were complex, innovative, creative, and way way before their time. In fact, Desert Rose (music by Sting) & Safe From Harm (music by Massive Attack) remain to this day my favorite professional programs of all time.

    But, in order for the program to succeed, both the choreographer & the skater must set the bar high; no skimping, no shortcuts. Next, throw in a gifted skater that can skate to anything, and isn't afraid to take chances, and you have something very very special indeed.

  6. #21
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Are there bonus points under CoP for a good choreo smile
    There is a bullet under the Performance/Execution Program Compomnent that speaks of "establishing an invisible connection with the audience."

    Of course, Dick Button will be sure to offer a critique. If your eyes are not smiling, he will mark you down. (He did say this about Sasha once.)

  7. #22
    Vancouver 2010, 247.23, Bronze
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    That would be Steuer himself. He is costume designer, choreographer, coach etc. in one.
    If it is indeed so, isn't it amazing for a former Stasi agent to have such a delicate and fine soul? Fine enough to create a piece of art to the 'Schindler's list' score.
    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    didnt they also choreographed themselves?
    They could have, but I was primarily referring to this program of theirs:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP9DP9IJ_P0

    And I think, it's Linichuk's. L&K are, IMO, usually so over the top, so unnecessary melodramatic. Yet managed to make that one Lacrimosa very convincing. Prophetic even, in a sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    As far as choreographers go, my vote goes to Sarah Kawahara, she's a genius in my humble opinion.
    Wasn't she the one who did the group choreo in the last COI tours? That is how I know her work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Of course, Dick Button will be sure to offer a critique. If your eyes are not smiling, he will mark you down. (He did say this about Sasha once.)
    And Uncle Dick knows what he's talking about, does he not. His own smile is usually oh so genuine.

  8. #23
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Kawahara was MK's choreographer for the 01-02 Season... she is and has been Scott Hamilton's choreographer since 1985 (or there abouts) she acted somewhat as a coach for him when he came back after his battle with cancer. she's won emmy's for her choreography for Scott Hamilton's Upside Down special (produced by Disney) and the choreography done for the opening and closing ceremonies of the 2002 Olympics.

    She is a fantastic choreographer.

  9. #24
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    I love lori nichol,.

  10. #25
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Under CoP the role of chreographer has changed. Lori did some very nice things for Michelle, but what was so great about those programs, the simpilistic moves that captured the feel of the music so well don't work under CoP. Now the top choreographers are so in demand because they are capable for creating programs that judges like. Lori seems to have the magic touch....judges fall head over heels for her programs. Morozov and Wilson have also been very successful.

    Personally I like Sarah Karahawa's work the best. Kurt Browning has also done some excellent things.

    I agree with whoever said that the skater really makes a chreographer shine. Lori has done some great things, but other programs just are blah.

  11. #26
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Under CoP the role of chreographer has changed. Lori did some very nice things for Michelle, but what was so great about those programs, the simpilistic moves that captured the feel of the music so well don't work under CoP. Now the top choreographers are so in demand because they are capable for creating programs that judges like. Lori seems to have the magic touch....judges fall head over heels for her programs. Morozov and Wilson have also been very successful.

    Personally I like Sarah Karahawa's work the best. Kurt Browning has also done some excellent things.

    I agree with whoever said that the skater really makes a chreographer shine. Lori has done some great things, but other programs just are blah.
    Thanks for your comments. It seems that there is resistance from skating fans to come out and say it - but CoP demands a certains type of choreo or you have no chance of making the podium. Skaters know Lori is good at it so they flock to her, Wilson and and several others and voila: just as Bianchetti said, "they are all looking the same."
    I wonder if skating will be stuck in this mode for a while or if eventually the freedom to risk something different will make a comeback.
    Creativity is so important and perhaps we all love our favorite skaters so much we fail to see that it is on the wane under CoP. Coaches have pointed this out and accept they have no choice but to help their skaters master these new purely point driven choreos. It must get tedious working under such conditions.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    There is a bullet under the Performance/Execution Program Compomnent that speaks of "establishing an invisible connection with the audience."

    Of course, Dick Button will be sure to offer a critique. If your eyes are not smiling, he will mark you down. (He did say this about Sasha once.)
    Well, the choreography when it originates is based upon the skater's abilities. I don't think our well known choreographers would give them difficult steps into hi level elements. How much the skater contributes to the choreography has to be his ability to include just so much what he can do and where to do it.

    Not unusual to see some skaters open up with a cute little intro move and then go after the first hi level jump preceded by some hefty crossovers. The crossovers will continue until the next hi level jumps are completed. There maybe a rocker or two before the jumps. Afterwards, the program will be more that of the choreographer.

    Anyone know of any skater who can really show a balanced program?

  13. #28
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Thanks for your comments. It seems that there is resistance from skating fans to come out and say it - but CoP demands a certains type of choreo or you have no chance of making the podium. Skaters know Lori is good at it so they flock to her, Wilson and and several others and voila: just as Bianchetti said, "they are all looking the same."
    I wonder if skating will be stuck in this mode for a while or if eventually the freedom to risk something different will make a comeback.
    Creativity is so important and perhaps we all love our favorite skaters so much we fail to see that it is on the wane under CoP. Coaches have pointed this out and accept they have no choice but to help their skaters master these new purely point driven choreos. It must get tedious working under such conditions.
    I think all the skaters have unique qualities and I think there is still plenty of creativity and different styles in the sport. The top ladies are very different: Yu-Na is very passionate, Joannie has an athletic but balletic quality about her, and Mao is very smooth and airy. Comparing the men, Patrick is very different from Brian as well as Evan. All the dance teams have interesting themes and music. I think COP has brought so much more to skating. When I go back and watch a lot of programs from 6.0 I am often very bored. There are so many crosscuts, telegraphing for jumps, and little to no footwork.

  14. #29
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    I think all the skaters have unique qualities and I think there is still plenty of creativity and different styles in the sport. The top ladies are very different: Yu-Na is very passionate, Joannie has an athletic but balletic quality about her, and Mao is very smooth and airy. Comparing the men, Patrick is very different from Brian as well as Evan. All the dance teams have interesting themes and music. I think COP has brought so much more to skating. When I go back and watch a lot of programs from 6.0 I am often very bored. There are so many crosscuts, telegraphing for jumps, and little to no footwork.

    Footwork? How quickly you forgot the great Kurt Browning

  15. #30
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Anyone know of any skater who can really show a balanced program?
    Joannie Rochette. Awesome jumps preceded or followed by loads of transitions, great speed, good spins, interesting choreography, good musicality. I think she is everything you can ask for in a skater.

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