Jennifer Kirk: Skating's Not-So-Secret Shame | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Jennifer Kirk: Skating's Not-So-Secret Shame

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Less weight is less pressure on the joints- especially with jumping. As a regular person, when I was really heavy I had a lot of problems with my joints. When I lost weight the pain was gone- and returns if I put on pounds.

The manner in which Jenny kept her weight down was counterproductive to her health. However a lighter body does help prevent injury. Both Baboo and Elvis are robust skaters but both had to deal with a lot of injury. Evan is much thinner after having sustained his stress fracture in his hip than he was earlier in his career.

Keeping a strict diet during the competitive years is probably the best preventative against injury. A skater can always return to a normal diet after the competitive years, but hip, knee and back injuries can last forever and affect everyday life.
Do you have studies on that? I don't want to be a brat, but I would really like to know. Because that sounds like some risky statement - not good off-ice training, not good physiotherapy - but a strict diet is the way to go? Being underweight is the way to go in order to prevent injuries?

The way you describe it, it means that it is best to be underweight. Because Joubert is in the lower normal weight. I know it is better for the joints to be of normal weight. But it is better to be underweight? Would Joubert have been less injured (by the way, I don't think he has suffered more injuries than others. Lysacek has always had a hip problemm, now the stress fracture, Weir a foot and back problem, Lambiel has his knees, Takahashi with his knees, Yagudin with his hip, Plushenko with his knees, Buttle with his back...) if he would weigh 65kg at his height?
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Little Girls in Pretty Boxes was first published in 1995.
I think it deals mostly with gymnastics, though, doesn't it? And the demands of that sport are different from those of skating.

Contrary to what some in the US media seem to think, skating is not just for 15-16 year old pwetty pwincesses. There are many skaters, even ladies, and certainly in pairs and dance, who skate well into their twenties, and who do not look too thin. Joannie Rochette would be a good example. I think she's even said in an interview she has to be careful in training or she becomes too muscular!

Both Baboo and Elvis are robust skaters but both had to deal with a lot of injury. Evan is much thinner after having sustained his stress fracture in his hip than he was earlier in his career.
I would separate stress and strain injuries from training accidents in this discussion. The latter don't seem to me to have much to do with skaters' weight or body type.

Joubert's injuries and health issues that I know of: a foot injury in 2007, when he spiked his blade into his foot and needed stitches; the mystery illness in 2007-8; and back problems in 2008-9. Only the last can be conceivably linked to his weight, and to me he doesn't look heavy at all. As Medusa noted, other male skaters have also had serious injuries - career ending in some cases. It's a sport that takes a real toll on people's body's, and barring breakthroughs in training and medical care, I'm afraid we'll continue to see serious injuries.
 
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enlight78

Medalist
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Personally I don't know how they could keep it up for months or years. While I was a dancer major in college I was dancing 16 hours a week and loosing weight no matter how much I ate. At the beginning of the semester I weighed about 180 by the end I was down to 161. My leaps did get easeir but I also got injured by the end of the semester . I couldn't imagine what condition I would have been if I was starving myself. The skaters train up to 20 hrs a week. It is insane for coaches to allow their skaters to do this, (I'm male by the way so its definitly a different issue for women but still it can't help their results that much)
 

CzarinaAnya

Medalist
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
What's sad is that it's usually not comments from fans that make skaters go too thin. Half the time it comes straight from their coaches.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
What's sad is that it's usually not comments from fans that make skaters go too thin. Half the time it comes straight from their coaches.

there HAS to be a way to encourage a healthy workout routine and diet without promoting anorexia. I thought many of these coaches would know better by now. Apparently not. BTW, I did a little Googling and it turns out many gymnastics coaches are notorious for weigh-ins and insults.
 

CzarinaAnya

Medalist
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Keeping a strict diet during the competitive years is probably the best preventative against injury. A skater can always return to a normal diet after the competitive years, but hip, knee and back injuries can last forever and affect everyday life.

Not getting enough nutrients in your diet during growing years can prevent good bone mass. Which makes joints far easier to fracture, and can lead to osteoporosis problems later on.
PLUS, in bulimic cases, the acid that the teeth endure is stripping away enamel, and can also lead to permanently damaging vocal chords.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
My guess is that the lighter you are, the easier it might be to jump...? (Not a skater, as you can tell.)

I think , in theory yes - less of you to get up ni the air and rotate = easier jumping. BUT, and it is a very big BUT, this is not necessairly true if you lose a lot of muscel in the weight loss. Remember Yags at the Goodwill Games prior to the Olympics, he'd lost something ridiculous like 15/16lbs in the off season convinced it would help his jumps, and he just lost muscle and his jumps went south. Tarasova enentually talked sense into him and he put the weight back on and was fine.

Ant

Contrary to what some in the US media seem to think, skating is not just for 15-16 year old pwetty pwincesses. There are many skaters, even ladies, and certainly in pairs and dance, who skate well into their twenties, and who do not look too thin. Joannie Rochette would be a good example. I think she's even said in an interview she has to be careful in training or she becomes too muscular!

Joubert has also said exactly the same thing. I think it was a few years ago now, he said he started to do mroe work with weights and had to stop because he bulked up too easily and it was changing his shape drastically such that it would throw his jumps off.

Ant
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
It's hard to believe that building muscle would hinder a skater's air turns. I'll have to think about that. :think:
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
It's hard to believe that building muscle would hinder a skater's air turns. I'll have to think about that. :think:

He specifically mentioned his upper body since i think most skaters have very big legs/buttocks proportionately with the rest of their bodies. So I think it's just as simple as - something that is bigger will rotate slower than something that is slimmer, be it muscle or not.

Ant
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
What's sad is that it's usually not comments from fans that make skaters go too thin. Half the time it comes straight from their coaches.

True but fans are perfectly guilty too.

I've seen plenty of comments of 'X skater having the "perfect" body', 'Y skater should be playing basketball instead or skates too manly' (all because of a muscular build), or 'Don't want to be mean but Z skater looks really heavy.' I've seen them one form or another on forums and YouTube comments. For the record, I am quoting (anonymously) posters who have said this, be they ubers or just non-ubers.

I believe Canada released an article about how the Asian women are successful primarily because of their body frames. Not for nothing, it wasn't very encouraging.

It's hard to believe that building muscle would hinder a skater's air turns. I'll have to think about that.

I'd imagine it's different for every skater, which is another thing. Some skating fans need to understand that no two skaters will have exactly the same body frame/type and that their bodies work differently. *gasp* /rant

Joesitz, Sasha is a good example of someone with muscle that rotates well in the air. Yes, Sasha's body changed dramatically as her career progressed. However, during the Salt Lake City, Sasha was probably the most muscular in her entire skating career. Yet, she had no problem springing into her loop and axels, most notably of her jumps. Her rotation is incredible.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Joesitz, Sasha is a good example of someone with muscle that rotates well in the air. Yes, Sasha's body changed dramatically as her career progressed. However, during the Salt Lake City, Sasha was probably the most muscular in her entire skating career. Yet, she had no problem springing into her loop and axels, most notably of her jumps. Her rotation is incredible.
Thank you, DM. I certainly agree, Sasha has a tight body and a tight body works everything better than a flabby one. As Wilde said, "Youth, it's wasted on the young." Sasha knows better. :agree:
 

tricia90

Rinkside
Joined
May 16, 2009
Jenny is right about this and it has been going on for a long time. When I was skating, I was naturally thin and weight was not really a problem for me. I didn't pay much attention to it until one summer at skating camp when a couple of the girls spent a lot of time talking about weight, food, calories etc They were far from heavy, but they said they had put on a few pounds during the winter and were unhappy about it.
One day after a trip to the buffet restaurant in town, I made the mistake of telling one of them that I had eaten too much was not looking forward to my jump lesson. She immediately launched into a graphic lesson in how I should just go throw up my lunch and the sooner the better. She said they had all started doing this and were losing weight. Their parents and coaches were pleased that the weight issue seemed to be under control and they seemed to think they had discovered a brilliant way to have their cake without the calories.
This was in the early seventies and I had never heard of bullemia but that's what it was.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
I'd imagine it's different for every skater, which is another thing. Some skating fans need to understand that no two skaters will have exactly the same body frame/type and that their bodies work differently. *gasp* /rant

No skaters don't have exactly the same bodies but they are all extremely similar - especially the men. The only male skaters that break that trend are pairs skaters as they tend to be bigger/bulkier because that helps with the lifts and throws. Most male skaters are more or less the same body wise, there is a reason you don't see 7foot tall 250lb male skaters - they just don't rotate as fast for the jumps.

Joesitz, Sasha is a good example of someone with muscle that rotates well in the air. Yes, Sasha's body changed dramatically as her career progressed. However, during the Salt Lake City, Sasha was probably the most muscular in her entire skating career. Yet, she had no problem springing into her loop and axels, most notably of her jumps. Her rotation is incredible.

I wasn't really thinking about the women when discussing muscle mass - I was referrring specifically to Joubert's comments about his upper body bulking up easily and it throwing off his jumps. Joannie made a similar statement so there has to be something in it if both of these skaters have said the same thing.

Ant
 

merrybari

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Good for Jenny to come forward with this problem. Maybe it will help others to "wise up."
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
I wasn't really thinking about the women when discussing muscle mass - I was referrring specifically to Joubert's comments about his upper body bulking up easily and it throwing off his jumps. Joannie made a similar statement so there has to be something in it if both of these skaters have said the same thing.

True. I do agree with you because muscle weight weighs more than actual fat. Sasha's case conflicts with this correlation. Joannie is similar in height with Sasha, though taller by an inch. Sasha having muscle weight doesn't seem to affect her rotation in the air but for Joannie, it is if she adds more than what she already has. Mao and Yuna have similar bodies but Yu-na is more prone to injuries.
 

icedancingnut31

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
This is sadly all true. I am a skater and I am pressured to lose weight. My coach is my main supporter and NEVER tells me I am fat or that I need to lose weight. She is like my therapist and my best friend and if I have problems in life I go to her.The atmosphere around me does pressure me on my weight. All the girls I skate with are stick thin while i am an average sized person my bmi within normal range. But I sometimes think I really want to lose weight. Skating dress companies really lower myself esteem, their sizes are so tiny and an average sized adult is who normally wears an Adult Small or Medium in most clothes is considered a large or an extra by a skating dress company. My body in the skating world is considered "large" which in skating dress designer language means fat. My family members call me overweight or fat a lot and sometimes I want to quit skating because off all the weight pressures. I don't have an eating disorder but I feel like all the pressure the skating world puts on being skinny may want to induce one. I hate it how normal sized people (not fat, not skinny) are considered fat in this sport. By the way many skaters do have large thighs(including me) thanks to super strong leg muscles
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
This is sadly all true. I am a skater and I am pressured to lose weight. My coach is my main supporter and NEVER tells me I am fat or that I need to lose weight. She is like my therapist and my best friend and if I have problems in life I go to her.The atmosphere around me does pressure me on my weight. All the girls I skate with are stick thin while i am an average sized person my bmi within normal range. But I sometimes think I really want to lose weight. Skating dress companies really lower myself esteem, their sizes are so tiny and an average sized adult is who normally wears an Adult Small or Medium in most clothes is considered a large or an extra by a skating dress company. My body in the skating world is considered "large" which in skating dress designer language means fat. My family members call me overweight or fat a lot and sometimes I want to quit skating because off all the weight pressures. I don't have an eating disorder but I feel like all the pressure the skating world puts on being skinny may want to induce one. I hate it how normal sized people (not fat, not skinny) are considered fat in this sport. By the way many skaters do have large thighs(including me) thanks to super strong leg muscles

:frown:
 
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