Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 40

Thread: Consistency - Is it Real?

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185

    Consistency - Is it Real?

    It's a term battered about the skating forums usually in the negative but sometimes in the positive. Can it ever be 100% perfect? Ballet, Modern, Jazz, Ballroom, etc., all are consistent or so close to it, it is never discussed among fans of those dance forms.

    Is it the 'slippery sport syndrome?' or a lack of Technique?

    Which skaters can we be relaxed while watching?
    Which skaters will make us nervous while watching?

    I think it is lack of technique.

    A few examples: Good Consistency: YuNa, Daisuke, Rachael, Aliona, Adam.
    Poor Consistency: So many come to mind with URs, WETs and sloppy spins.

  2. #2
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,841
    Great topic!

    I think that consistency in figure skating -- if by this we mean hitting every planned elelement without error almost every time out -- is a thing of the past. The reason why is that with the current judging system each skater is constantly pushing up against his or her ultimate limits in each program.

    It's like a pole vaulter. If he were content to jump 18 feet he would make it almost all the time. But he wouldn't win. So he has to try 20 feet and make it only half the time.

  3. #3
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,455
    I think this depends on how you define consistency. I'm not looking necessarily for a prefect and clean performance, because those are few and far between under any judging system. Some skaters, however, do show consistency in maintaining at least a good quality across most/all of their performances and get consistently good results. They might get hit with URs or edge calls, but the overall impression their skating creates will generally be positive. These are the skaters who can actually skate two decent programs at the same event...

    In the consistent group, I would put Aliona and Robin, Yu-Na, and Joannie Rochette based on 2008-9; Evan Lysacek and Laura Lepisto (both of whom I think are consistently good, but rarely great), and I guess the Zhangs. Brian Joubert is consistent in terms of results but the actual skating can be all over the place, especially his LPs. Takahiko Kozuka also strikes me as pretty consistent. This isn't a technique thing; it's mental.

    I cannot consider Dai consistent; a guy with that much talent should have much more to show for it by this point in his career - yes, even with the injury. Tomas Verner and Carolina Kostner are horribly inconsistent - no need for URs or edge calls, they do it all on their own with no help from the judges. Actually, if inconsistent means someone who sometimes gets URs and edge calls and sometimes doesn't that seems to me more like inconsistent technical callers.

  4. #4
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,694
    interesting topic. I do think it's a term that is thrown around by skating fans with almost no thought at all (me included).

    But what does it REALLY mean? I will not speak for other posters but I usually mean a skater who I can watch comfortably without being on edge every time she jumps. For example, Rachel Flatt. Counterexample: Czisny.

  5. #5
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,841
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    But what does it REALLY mean? I will not speak for other posters but I usually mean a skater who I can watch comfortably without being on edge every time she jumps. For example, Rachel Flatt. Counterexample: Czisny.
    But the trouble with that is that it is as much about the viewer as about the skater. If I am emotionally invested in a skater and rooting for her to win then I am on the edge of my seat for every jump no matter how consistently she lands them.

    On the other hand, for a skater like Alissa, every jump is a separate roll of the dice no matter whether I am paying attention or not, so I can sit back and relax and whatever happens happens.

  6. #6
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,694
    ^ You've a point there.

    It IS about the viewer. Ask 100 skating fans what "consistency" means and I think you will get more than 5 different answers.

    As I don't really get emotionally invested in skaters, I guess I'm detached in that regard. Oh well, like I hinted above- YMMV

  7. #7
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    4,990
    I can't believe nobody said Michele yet. Considering the length of her career she was remarkably consistent!

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    452
    Michelle was very consistent. Sasha, unfortunately, inconsistent.

    Consistency is real. But for OGM it seems consistency doesn't matter, just one lucky night. Tara, Sarah, Shizuka. Who will be next in line in 2010? Although many of us predict Yun-a, it may not be, if history is any indication.

  9. #9
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,694
    Yuna has showed that she isn't invincible. And just last season, Mao showed us she isn't, either.

    This could be an interesting season, and deja vu could appear at the Olys once again, with Asada nor Kim winning (Ando, perhaps? don't take this as a prediction, just an example).

  10. #10
    I don't think its so much technique (although that can play a part) as it is the ice/blade. If you do a jump on the floor and land a little off you probably won't fall becuase 1) the floor is not slippery and 2) you have the whole surface of your foot to land on. On the ice you only have a small blade. Same reason that in gymnastics tumbling on the beam is much consistent than tumbling on the floor, less margin for error.
    So yes dancers are more consistent, but that becuase they have a greater margin of error.

  11. #11
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    UK - Manchester
    Posts
    4,913
    It really does depend on your definition of consistent.

    Most people will tell you Sasha was inconsistent and that was why she never won a gold at the wrold championships. In reality though, she was consistent in that she delivered the same type of programmes every time she skated - knock out SP that often left her at or near 1st place and then a solid LP with one or two errors. She consistently delivered those programmes and consistently landed on the podium just not on the top step.

    I think when a lot of skate fans use the term "consistency" they actually mean "perfection" - they are looking for the 8 triple programmes plus quad, or seven triple programme plus triple/triple.

    Perhaps people just use consistency as a shorthand for "consistently skate to their full potential". In which case again I think there are arguments for and against to say that Sasha did in fact skate "consistently" because when did she ever skate two perfect programmes? Was what she put out the best that she could.

    I don't think there's any question that Michelle consistently skated to her full potential - when her body permitted she had the full arsenal of jumps in every programme landing 7 or 6 triples at more or less every outing. Then when the injury prevented ehr from doing the loop, she took it out but did everything else to teh best of her ability, and it was nearly always enough.

    Ant

  12. #12
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by BravesSkateFan View Post
    I don't think its so much technique (although that can play a part) as it is the ice/blade. If you do a jump on the floor and land a little off you probably won't fall becuase 1) the floor is not slippery and 2) you have the whole surface of your foot to land on. On the ice you only have a small blade. Same reason that in gymnastics tumbling on the beam is much consistent than tumbling on the floor, less margin for error.
    So yes dancers are more consistent, but that becuase they have a greater margin of error.
    You make some good points, but as many posters have mentioned, it is difficult to define consistency. What does it mean, when a poster writes: 'he/she is not a consistent skater'? Is it a permanent condition? or one bad skate in one competition? and can it be corrected?

    A Fall is definitely caused by poor technique, but was that accidental or does it happen more often than not? URs and WETs are definitely caused by poor techniques. Are they a one-time thing or do they happen more often than not?

    I believe we can cite many examples of faulty techniques in many skaters, but does it mean the skater is inconsistent? I think in some cases, it does. Without mentioning names, there are skaters I expect to Fall in the upcoming season; I expect others (or the same ones) to underrotate jumps and make wrong edge take-offs. But I also believe that a few of them will work hard during off season and correct these errors. Unfortunately it will only be a few, and those become contenders.

  13. #13
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,455
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    A Fall is definitely caused by poor technique, but was that accidental or does it happen more often than not?
    A fall isn't necessarily caused by poor technique; it can also be due to something mental, or just lack of concentration, or ice conditions, or just bad luck (like catching your toe pick on something). URs and wrong edges are definitely a technique issue.

    BravesSkateFan, long time no see! I know this is totally off topic, but when I saw your name in this thread I suddenly had a mental image of Brian McCann trying a 3A .

  14. #14
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    A fall isn't necessarily caused by poor technique; it can also be due to something mental, or just lack of concentration, or ice conditions, or just bad luck (like catching your toe pick on something). URs and wrong edges are definitely a technique issue.
    I agree but I would say mental or lack of concentration causes poor technique. Ice conditions (ruts) can also cause a Fall accidentally but I think only for one jump. Indeed, ruts are bad luck.

  15. #15
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    3,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I agree but I would say mental or lack of concentration causes poor technique. Ice conditions (ruts) can also cause a Fall accidentally but I think only for one jump. Indeed, ruts are bad luck.
    I agree in the sense that some skaters are prone to not having the mental fortitude, whereas any skater can just have a momentary glitch. The one's that have the occasional glitch cannot be considered inconsistent since it is not ever present.

    While Michele was consistently neat in her presentation whether full arsenal or not, the only season of great concern was 1997 - that was partly due to more self-pressure, growth spurt and divided time with contractual obligations. Over her entire career, it was an out of character year due to the # of falls.

    Sasha and Alissa I would cite as inconsistent with regards to overall quality of their performances. When you have to hold your breath on every single jump, it definitely speaks with regards to their consistency in landing jumps towards the negative. They were consistent in their ability to land the jumps when it counts. For Sasha, I think it was eye on the prize leading to lack of concentration. For Alissa, I think it was the weight of self-expectations/hopes. If she did well in the SP, you could almost count on her to have a meltdown during the LP - heck, the only reason she won the Nationals last year was because she was so far ahead after the short and didn't meltdown as badly as compared to previous performances at Nationals during the LP - the point margin was greatly reduced after the LP, whereas most consistent skaters will widen the point spread.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •