It's difficult for me to think of a 'comeback' skater as someone who is doing this as a lark. I do believe they will be disappointed in not winning gold. Of course, ardent fans will stick by them win or lose. However, .....
After being Olympic gold medalists or podium medalists do they lose something in the final estimation of the public?
I don't know. I just believe they are too many this time, that must mean something.
As far as "the public" is concerned, it probably has no idea they retired in the first place.
If the media pumps it up as a comeback effort, people will be sympathetic. That's just how they are. If they win or come close - fabulous story and lasting fame. If they fail - well, it's still a good story and a day of fame.
BTW - who tries for the Olympics "as a lark"? It's got to be an incredibly grueling and expensive way to spend a year, to say nothing of the pressure. I think that's a very trivializing, even insulting idea. Why is it so hard to accept that athletes love to compete?
I doubt that any of those returning for the Olympics consider it a lark. I think it is to satisfy a deep need to compete. For some who have maybe been in transition from living a life on the ice to trying to find something equally as meaningful and satisfying to replace it, it seems a return to something they love.
Win, lose or draw, the fans will be the winners for seeing some of their favorites from earlier times on the ice once more.
I applaud the willingness of these skaters to put themselves through the rigors that it takes to be at a competitive level after having been either off the ice or only on "show" ice in the meantime. I wish them well.
Hopefully, regardless of final placement, they will all feel at the very least the satisfaction of having given it their best shot one more time.
I don't think it will dim their "fame" should they not win gold. They will forever be remembered for the glory years and loved for the effort, regardless of the result. It gives some of us one more time - or perhaps a first time - to see some of them compete live and in person.
I'm sure those eligible skaters who've stayed in the mix all along will keep on doing what they've always done - working to improve their own skating from year to year. On any given day, any one of them at this level, continuing or returning can have the skate of their lives and claim the prize. All of them are better than they would've been without the effort.
What a fabulous season ahead for fans! Can hardly wait for it to start. Bring it on!!
I agreeOriginally Posted by merrybari
And it is not like they say I come back and they can magically come back and jump triples and quads and win medals again, if a skater needs an effort to improve from previous season, they need double and triple training to pass all the difficulties mentally and physically and be competitive athletes again. If they can do it kudos to them. Even if all the odds are against them from the beginning. And I see it as good for the sport in general. Does it matter they retired for one, two or ten seasons?Who says athletes have a dead line unless they decide to?
It is easy for us to judge from outside but it is their lives and their effort and we see only the outcome. Thats why medals are not important.
It is 44 degrees today here, i m whining a bit.
Maybe in the immediate aftermath of the Olympics, but not overall. On the one hand, if you're good enough to come in second, you're good enough to be disappointed by not coming in first (courtesy of Sports Night), and I think that disappointment rings true for both the athletes themselves and the general public. But their career remains. It's not like their previous achievements are wiped out from the collective memory. If anything, it can throw them into sharper relief. Is the "Battle of the Brians" any less memorable because Boitano's performance in 1994 was not up to his previous best? How do you remember Katarina Witt? As the gutsiest and most consistent ladies figure skater of the 80's or as the woman who's last international performance gave her her worst ranking since 1980's Worlds.After being Olympic gold medalists or podium medalists do they lose something in the final estimation of the public?
And this was during the sport's heyday. Now, with the sport dwindling in coverage, the casual public don't always know who's been gone for what reasons.
I'm actually more curious about how die-hard fans approach this, truth be told. And, of course, that varies from person to person and via athlete vis-a-vis our own expectations.
What are we expecting from Lambiel? From Plushenko? From Cohen? From Shen/Zhao? I think that's what dictates how we view their performance.
I seriously wonder why all these comebacks are taking place. There must be something going on that we don't know about.
I can't imagine they are coming back solely for the "experience". Like Jenny Kirk said in one of her blogs, this "I want to skate my best" is just PR filler...these skaters really think they can win again (or win for the first time, if they came up short in '06). Time will tell how much of a chance they really have.
Journalists like Phil Hersh claim that a comeback attempt, even if it fails completely, "wouldn't take away from their past accomplishments". I'm inclined to say YMMV here, but it might depend on the skater. The more the skater has accomplished, the less likely there is to be disappointment among his/her fans if they were to come up short or pull out.
After being Olympic gold medalists or podium medalists do they lose something in the final estimation of the public?
It depends on the skater and how realistic the viewpoints taken are.
Sasha was never a champion even in her prime so nobody reasonable is expecting her to be a champion vs a tougher field making a comeback now. In her case she isnt enough of a legend to diminish herself. I think most of expecting her to either miss the team or finish 5th-7th at the Olympics if she does make it so I dont see how she could dissapoint others. If she expects a medal let alone the gold she is likely to end up dissapointing herself though.
Shen/Zhou have never done better than bronze at the Olympics and legends because of their caliber of skating, World titles, and other titles. So it would be hard to diminish themselves in their comeback. The pairs field is so weak they will probably win atleast bronze if they are in half decent shot, have a good shot of silver, and even have an outside shot of gold if they come back stronger than expected given their ages and the Germans still have consistency problems. Either way they will probably be on the podium and they are well into their 30s now. I think them diminishing themselves in their comeback is nearly impossible if they make it.
If Kwan came back she probably would end up diminishing herself since unlike Sasha she has a huge legacy to live up to, and her chances if she did return now would be even less than Sasha. However she wont come back I dont believe as she is too smart to not realize all of this.
Lambiel could easily diminish himself to some extent if he isnt jumping alot better than he has for awhile. Then again the mens field is so weak and open if he is jumping well he can easily gain the elusive gold so it depends what kind of shape he is and how hard he is working.
Plushenko could diminish himself to some degree if he flops since he has such a history of dominance and isnt that old. For his own sake hopefully he is in good shape as well.
^ I more or less agree with that. But ultimately, it's what these skaters expect of themselves that will be the biggest factor in a successful return. And never mind what they tell the media- it's all in their heads.
The men's field is weak? Are you serious? There are at least ten guys who could medal, and not be default. Lambiel, Joubert, Takahashi, Plushenko, Oda, Verner, Abbott, Lysacek, Weir, Oda, Chan, Kozuka - some of them may have consistency issues, they have different strengths and styles, but not one of them is a weak skater. The men's field is shaping up to be the strongest and deepest of all the disciplines next season.
^^^
I think any of those 10 you listed, and who did not come up to expectations in the 2006 Olys, and Worlds of Gothenborg or los Angeles, will come out fighting mad. That's what a returning priizefighter would do if he wants another crack at the title.
Yes I think the mens field is weak now. A skater like Lysacek becoming World Champion is not sign of a strong field, sorry. Lysacek's performances to win this years Worlds would have probably put him only 6th at say the 2004 Worlds, or only 5th at say the 2002 Olympics and even 2001 and 2002 Worlds. There are many events in history a skater without a quad, without remarkable jump quality, and without top notch artistry or overall skating skills, wouldnt even be on the podium even skating perfectly. The last Worlds he would have won with the same performances would probably be 1992 or 1993 maybe. A skater like Joubert last season was skating with zero artistry, horrible programs, weak spins and footwork, and his jumping which used to be his greatest strength was way off and making alot of mistakes on. Last years Worlds he had trouble landing his quads and triple axels cleanly and even fell on a freaking double axel. The scary thing is even with his all limitations of his current skating he would have won Worlds had he one or two less of all his mistakes.
Ever since 2004 the field has increasingly and gradually weakened with injuries, the inconsistency of some talented skaters, the underachieving of some talented skaters, retirements and not enough newer stars filling their shoes, and it is left at what it is.
The field is deep in a certain way in that there are alot of very good skaters, but no great ones in their primes. It is like a bunch of skaters that other years would be fighting for places 3rd to 6th and there are about 10 to 12 of them which makes a very deep and unpredictable field but not neccessarily a strong one as far as championship quality.
I think the word "weak" is largely measured by the technical abilities - jumps, spins, and footworks. A tiny portion of the idea of "weak" is related to artistic abilities. one of the most important tech abilities is the quad jumps. Without quad, it does seem to be weak. That is why I have said in another thread that the last two year world championship produced sad results. Without the come back forces, only Joubert is relatively consistent in the quad jumps. The next can be considered a quad skater is Verner. But he is not reliable so far. Many skaters could manage a quad or two from time to time, but the quad did not do much good for them because it either failed in the attempt or if it was successful, it drew too much energy from them and messed the rest of their programs up.
However, the quad bunch, Plushenko, Lambiel, and Takahashi are coming back. The younger generations are a year more mature and are chasing their dreams too. The up coming season will be packed with high technical skills and high level jumps.
On the artistic side, Lambiel's artistry is more and more polished, and near the top. Plushenko would go all the way out to bring the fire on ice (at least I believe so). Takahashi was a natural artistic skater. Joubert might finally put on his A level artistry. The only skater in about top 15 who is a bit weak on artistic abilities is Lysacek. But he has his strength, consistency, and determination.
Such field can hardly be called "weak". No, the coming season is strong for men. So strong that I couldn't even figure out who will be the strongest competitor. I just love it!
I agree about Shen/Zhao. They never won OGM but they are already legendary team, so I hardly believe they will diminish themselves whatever the result.
For me, the same for Plushenko. He's acheived almost all that one skater could dream of - OGM, 4 world titles, several european titles, etc. - so if he couldn't even reach podium in Vancouver, I don't believe he'd hurt his fame, although his eventual failure would be noised for a while in media, but then again, it's more likely to be about the victory of any skater over Plushenko, the KING.The same goes for Kwan.
In Lambiel's case, I somewhat agree. It seems quite different with Plushenko's case. Stephane has already two world titles and one olympic silver medal, but he is not in the same league as Plushenko in terms of "legend". While he returns after short-time retirement, he is rather considered "one of the male skaters in the field" like Joubert, Lysacek, Weir, Takahashi and others. So if he would perfom badly in Olympics like last year's worlds, he could diminish himself to some extent same as his rivals do, at least in a short term. I really hope this would NOT happen again.
I'm not sure about Sasha. It depends on what expectations her fans (including not fans of her) have for her return. I suppose if she performs well in both programs, no matter what placement, it would be satisfying for many people.
But again, in the long run, these fantastic skaters would, I think, be remembered by their memorable perfomances rather than by their failure in the history of figure skating. Personally, I am really happy I'd have another chance to see all theses skaters in the same competition, especially such a big event like the Olympics.
Last edited by losrorien; 07-30-2009 at 04:05 PM.
I agree with some skaters as being LEGENDARY, but I think the term requires a definition to which 85% of fandom agrees to what makes a legend?
I believe Sonia Henie is legendary based on her contributions to the Sport.
I believe the Protopovs are a legenday team based on what they brought to Pairs Skating.
I believe Lori Nichol is legendary for her creativity in choreographing competitive programs.
I believe John Curry is legendary for bringing forth musical interpretations of competitive skating.
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