Originally Posted by madibe
I feel the same way. She also needs to add something new to her own long program from the past two years! Because thats what it is. I think her short program has alot of potential though, the 'having choreography' part helps...
I'm loving all the SP's from the top 3 ladies, especially Rachael's, I've never seen her emote so much in a program.
Last edited by HCOSurfer; 09-09-2009 at 03:32 PM.
Rachael was great. I personally didn't love her short, but it did have much more personality than her programs usually do, so good for her. I liked her long though. I agree with whoever said that this music is much more accessible than Debussy was, and I don't feel like this program was as flat as her usual. She's doing great, I look forward to seeing how she improves throughout the course of the season.
I actually liked Mirai's POTC more than I thought I would. I liked the beginning slow part because it's not the overused POTC we all know. It's not princessy but it does have some sensitive parts to it. And I like how she used a variation of the main theme at the end. Not as dramatic as the original, but I don't think that was what she was going for in this program.
Carmen was so so.. Again, appreciate the lesser-known cuts but the program didn't stand out in my mind. I think she knows she's not ready for full-on Carmen, so she tried to do a unique version of it. Unfortunately, it left the program in a kind of awkward middle. Overall I like that Mirai's getting away from her cutesy stuff but she should have waited until she was ready for full-on Carmen. As far as her jumps, I can't see any significant improvement but it at least looks like she's back to her old self.
Caroline's short has tons of potential. Loved parts of the choreography and her black dress is soo pretty. She used a lot more of the slow part, understandably. I was hoping for a faster footwork sequence, but what she has is really nice too. But the final two spins have got to be faster with that music cut. Someone said on YouTube that her lack of speed is making her spins look bad, a hard thing to do. She was definitely off here, but this program could really be great if she just gets going...
Nutcracker...sigh... it was exceedingly similar to Ave Maria... and every other long she's done. Liked the spirals but that was about it. I was really hoping she could build off of the great crescendos in the music but even her spirals kinda fell short there. She could potentially do fine with this program like she did with Ave Maria, but we're all tired of fine...
So yeah, after seeing all four girls' early programs, I'd probably rank them:
Indeed we are.
Originally Posted by LeCygne
1) Ashley (both programs)
2) Caroline's short
3) Rachael's short
4) Mirai (both)
5) Rachael's long
6) Caroline's long
Also gonna throw in that I loved Ellie Kawamura's SP to 'Over the Rainbow' but that dress is...four shades too literal.
Last edited by cornell08; 09-09-2009 at 06:04 PM.
My ranking was more for the actual skaters' conditions than their programs, but I pretty much agree with your ranking of the programs. Except maybe switch Rachael's short with her long...
Originally Posted by cornell08
Haha I love Ellie, she's so cute. Her short is great but I loved her tango LP actually, and her LP dress is quite stylish.
As near as I can figure, Caroline was not allowed to jump for a month, then was back to jumping for 2 1/2 to 3 weeks before Golden West. We can't really judge how she's doing after so short a time back into full training.
Mirai and Rachael seem to be ready to take on the world.
I think you mean Mirai and Ashley!
Sorry...Rachael's LP still bores me to tears
Are there any videos of Ashley's new programs?
Originally Posted by cornell08
Here's detailed protocol info for the top 3 via one of my sources at Golden West:
1. Rachael Flatt
SP score: 62.50 (35.95/26.55)
Base Value 31.20 / TES 35.95
FS score: 117.17 (64.77/52.40)
3Lz+2T (-0.50) 2nd half bonus
BV 60.01 / TES 64.77
2. Mirai Nagasu
SP score: 61.16 (35.46/25.70)
BV 31.20 / TES 35.46
FS score: 100.65 (50.34/51.31)
3F(e)< (-0.60) 2nd half bonus
3S< (-1.00) fall
BV 46.85 / TES 50.34
3 Caroline Zhang
SP score: 50.12 (25.67/24.45)
BV 24.30 / TES 25.67
FS score: 102.22 (53.00/49.22)
3Lo (-0.25) 2nd half bonus
[skated through a planned 3S]
BV 50.48 / TES 53.00
Originally Posted by cornell08
I actually like Caroline's short program. Probably not outstanding but still great. Her long program though.. I'd really hate to see her go back to Ave Maria in the mid-season two years in a row. That's how much I'm disappointed with Nutcracker.
I'm disappointed with Mirai's both programs. She's 16, and it's about time she should be skating like a lady. Why is Lori placing all those cutesy poses that disrupt the flow of otherwise excellent programs? This just confirms my theory that she likes to "define" each of her skater. Time to move on. Period.
Rachael's short program looks awesome. She just needs to be careful not to cross the border to "gimmicky". Her spins are still too sloppy. The way she drags her blade for an extended period of time each time she enters/exits a spin or changes the foot really makes her look unpolished and juniorish. Her tech mark is very strong as it is, but bit of polishing up might just boost her pcs.
I'm impressed with all of them, given that it's still early in the season and all those coaching changes and injuries. But I have to say I'm most impressed by Alissa and Ashley's short programs so far.
Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program
I have to say I was most impressed with Mirai after watching all three. Her Carmen was much better than I expected, finally some mature choreography for her. I thought she skated it really well except for the fall at the end. The only thing that bothered me was that her step sequence did not seem quite big enough, I don't think she closed the circle, even in that small rink does anybody know if she got deducted for that? Her SP was beautiful and I did not recognize it as pirates until the step sequence at the end which I thought seemed very out of place with the begining of the program. Lori has to cut out all the cutesy moves in there which here funny when she was 14, not anymore. It just does not match the first 3/4 of the program. but in both programs her speed and jumps were head and shoulders above the other girls.
I liked Caroline's short, that dress looks terrific on her and it is nice to see her doing something with personality. that entrance into the double axel seems to have helped a little, or else just masks it better, whatever, she should keep that. Her long was as expected. Rather boring. Some parts felt like Ave Maris set to different music. I don't like the blue dress at all and I felt myself holding my breath everytime she went into the air. She gets absolutely no height I can't believe she can rotate 3 times.
Racheal was ok. The free was very "her" but I didn't feel any presence on the ice, but I am giving it time. I thought her jumps also looked very small and that catchfoot position in almost every single spin was tiring, especially because the position is not very pretty. There were some sloppy moments in both programs, but it is early yet. Her spirals still need a lot of work, they looked so much higher in the practice videos I was disappointed. I felt that Sing, Sing, Sing was not the best choice when I first heard it and still feel that way. It seems juniorish or more like an exhibition, not an olympic program.
Mirai definitely seems to be looking better this season. She's more confident and comfortable with her body now and appears to be hitting the jumps at least somewhat better than last season.
Originally Posted by cornell08
Watching her performances raised a few questions though. What happened to her Ina Bauer? It seems to be gone in any incarnation from her programs, when it used to be one of her more spectacular moves. When we first saw Mirai in Juniors she was incorporating it into various entries on jumps, but through the last two seasons she seemed to remove that from her repertoire, using it only as a stand alone element. Now she's not even doing that. Her spiral also seems a bit weaker to me, like the leg is not as high and her back seems to be a bit more dropped. Does anyone else see this?
I don't really understand her programs at all. I don't think anyone is considering Mirai a contender for an Olympic medal, but in an Olympic year wouldn't a skater want to be competing with programs designed to win the gold. The long program especially, just seems so bland. Even if she skates it perfectly it's just not the kind of brilliant program that judges are going to award with titles. And maybe that's not Mirai and her coaches' goal this year, but I think they'd always be striving in that direction. I'll actually say that I think Mirai's programs have gotten progressively worse choreographically since we saw her win the Junior National Title. She was certainly skating like a junior that year, but the program worked with the music and was interesting. Transitions were better and the choreography seemed more specific. Coppelia was nice too, but last year's long was totally forgettable and I think this year's will be the same, even if she's skating better.
But those are the programs she has and I think she and Lori and Frank have a lot to work on, especially in the footwork sequences and the transitions. It will definitely be interesting to see how and if these programs evolve over the next 3 or 4 months.
I just rewatched all three girls' long programs, and execution of jumps aside my favorite programs are now in this order:
I think a big part of the program is the finish, and while I was hardly thrilled at the music Caroline chose-- it swells as it gets going and really finishes with a bang. I like how her spiral is near the end because its really sensational and directly followed by the pearl. Pretty effective. Rachael music cuts really did nothing for me except for the middle section (the actual main Theme) but that makes neither the first impression nor leaves the last impression. Mirai's, after viewing it again, is actually a very winning Carmen portrayal imo. Course it needs work but I saw alot of charm already there.