Golden West (Sept. 3-6 in Culver City, CA)

As near as I can figure, Caroline was not allowed to jump for a month, then was back to jumping for 2 1/2 to 3 weeks before Golden West. We can't really judge how she's doing after so short a time back into full training.

Mirai and Rachael seem to be ready to take on the world.

I think you mean Mirai and Ashley!

Sorry...Rachael's LP still bores me to tears

cornell08 said:

I think you mean Mirai and Ashley!

Sorry...Rachael's LP still bores me to tears

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Are there any videos of Ashley's new programs?

SP from Moran Memorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVvSVkLgfSU


LP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFhdC-xBa5A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYwkY-0aTI&feature=related

Here's detailed protocol info for the top 3 via one of my sources at Golden West:

1. Rachael Flatt
SP score: 62.50 (35.95/26.55)
3F+2T (+1.25)
3Lz (+0.25)
FCSp4 (+0.50)
SpSq4 (+1.00)
LSp1 (0.00)
2A (+0.50)
SlSt3 (+0.75)
CCoSp4 (+0.50)
Base Value 31.20 / TES 35.95

FS score: 117.17 (64.77/52.40)
2A (+1.50)
3F+2T (+0.25)
3Lz (+1.25)
FCSp4 (+0.13)
CCsp4 (+0.13)
3Lo (+0.50)
3Lz+2T (-0.50) 2nd half bonus
SpSq4 (+0.75)
3F+2T+2Lo (0.00)
3S (0.00)
CiSt3 (+0.50)
CCoSp4 (+0.25)
BV 60.01 / TES 64.77

2. Mirai Nagasu
SP score: 61.16 (35.46/25.70)
3Lz+2T (+1.00)
3F(!) (-1.75)
SpSq4 (+1.25)
2A (+0.75)
FSSp4 (+0.25)
LSp4 (+1.13)
CiSt2 (+0.63)
CCoSp4 (+1.00)
BV 31.20 / TES 35.46

FS score: 100.65 (50.34/51.31)
3Lz+2T+2Lo (+1.00)
2A+2T (-0.80)
3F(e)+2T (-1.50)
FSSp4 (+0.50)
LSp4 (+1.13)
SpSq2 (+0.63)
3F(e)< (-0.60) 2nd half bonus
3Lo (+0.75)
2A (+1.75)
3S< (-1.00) fall
CiSt2 (+0.50)
CCoSp4 (+1.13)
BV 46.85 / TES 50.34

3 Caroline Zhang
SP score: 50.12 (25.67/24.45)
3F(e)< (-0.80)
3Lo+2T (+0.25)
CiSt1 (+0.38)
FSSp4 (+0.38)
2A (-1.60)
SpSq1 (+0.88)
CCoSp4 (+0.88)
LSp4 (+1.00)
BV 24.30 / TES 25.67

FS score: 102.22 (53.00/49.22)
3F+2T (0.00)
3Lz+2T (-1.00)
2A (0.00)
CCoSp3 (+0.88)
FSSp4 (+0.38)
3F (-2.00)
3Lo (-0.25) 2nd half bonus
[skated through a planned 3S]
3Lo+2T+2Lo< (+0.25)
CiSt2 (+0.63)
SpSq4 (+2.25)
LSp4 (+1.38)
BV 50.48 / TES 53.00

cornell08 said:

SP from Moran Memorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVvSVkLgfSU


LP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFhdC-xBa5A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYwkY-0aTI&feature=related

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Thanks.

I actually like Caroline's short program. Probably not outstanding but still great. Her long program though.. I'd really hate to see her go back to Ave Maria in the mid-season two years in a row. That's how much I'm disappointed with Nutcracker.
I'm disappointed with Mirai's both programs. She's 16, and it's about time she should be skating like a lady. Why is Lori placing all those cutesy poses that disrupt the flow of otherwise excellent programs? This just confirms my theory that she likes to "define" each of her skater. Time to move on. Period.

Rachael's short program looks awesome. She just needs to be careful not to cross the border to "gimmicky". Her spins are still too sloppy. The way she drags her blade for an extended period of time each time she enters/exits a spin or changes the foot really makes her look unpolished and juniorish. Her tech mark is very strong as it is, but bit of polishing up might just boost her pcs.

I'm impressed with all of them, given that it's still early in the season and all those coaching changes and injuries. But I have to say I'm most impressed by Alissa and Ashley's short programs so far.

I have to say I was most impressed with Mirai after watching all three. Her Carmen was much better than I expected, finally some mature choreography for her. I thought she skated it really well except for the fall at the end. The only thing that bothered me was that her step sequence did not seem quite big enough, I don't think she closed the circle, even in that small rink does anybody know if she got deducted for that? Her SP was beautiful and I did not recognize it as pirates until the step sequence at the end which I thought seemed very out of place with the begining of the program. Lori has to cut out all the cutesy moves in there which here funny when she was 14, not anymore. It just does not match the first 3/4 of the program. but in both programs her speed and jumps were head and shoulders above the other girls.

I liked Caroline's short, that dress looks terrific on her and it is nice to see her doing something with personality. that entrance into the double axel seems to have helped a little, or else just masks it better, whatever, she should keep that. Her long was as expected. Rather boring. Some parts felt like Ave Maris set to different music. I don't like the blue dress at all and I felt myself holding my breath everytime she went into the air. She gets absolutely no height I can't believe she can rotate 3 times.

Racheal was ok. The free was very "her" but I didn't feel any presence on the ice, but I am giving it time. I thought her jumps also looked very small and that catchfoot position in almost every single spin was tiring, especially because the position is not very pretty. There were some sloppy moments in both programs, but it is early yet. Her spirals still need a lot of work, they looked so much higher in the practice videos I was disappointed. I felt that Sing, Sing, Sing was not the best choice when I first heard it and still feel that way. It seems juniorish or more like an exhibition, not an olympic program.

cornell08 said:

Musings on Mirai’s programs:

1) She interpreted her SP better than her LP. That said, this Carmen is more of a girlscout. I don’t think Mirai, Rachael or Caroline can really pull off sultry/sexy at this point…Ashley’s probably the only young up and comer who can get away with it for now.

2) The theme (and best part!) of the Pirates soundtrack for some reason does not show up in the cut shes uses until the last part near the beginning of her footwork sequence. Why does she use that obscure, boring part of the soundtrack for the first 2/3rds of her program?

3) She does a funky knee move at 2:47 of her SP video that I’m sorry, is more hysterical than what she’s going for I’ll bet.

4) Not sure why she placed behind Caroline in the long...

5) I really love watching this girl skate! Pure joy on ice Great start for her.

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Mirai definitely seems to be looking better this season. She's more confident and comfortable with her body now and appears to be hitting the jumps at least somewhat better than last season.

Watching her performances raised a few questions though. What happened to her Ina Bauer? It seems to be gone in any incarnation from her programs, when it used to be one of her more spectacular moves. When we first saw Mirai in Juniors she was incorporating it into various entries on jumps, but through the last two seasons she seemed to remove that from her repertoire, using it only as a stand alone element. Now she's not even doing that. Her spiral also seems a bit weaker to me, like the leg is not as high and her back seems to be a bit more dropped. Does anyone else see this?

I don't really understand her programs at all. I don't think anyone is considering Mirai a contender for an Olympic medal, but in an Olympic year wouldn't a skater want to be competing with programs designed to win the gold. The long program especially, just seems so bland. Even if she skates it perfectly it's just not the kind of brilliant program that judges are going to award with titles. And maybe that's not Mirai and her coaches' goal this year, but I think they'd always be striving in that direction. I'll actually say that I think Mirai's programs have gotten progressively worse choreographically since we saw her win the Junior National Title. She was certainly skating like a junior that year, but the program worked with the music and was interesting. Transitions were better and the choreography seemed more specific. Coppelia was nice too, but last year's long was totally forgettable and I think this year's will be the same, even if she's skating better.

But those are the programs she has and I think she and Lori and Frank have a lot to work on, especially in the footwork sequences and the transitions. It will definitely be interesting to see how and if these programs evolve over the next 3 or 4 months.

I just rewatched all three girls' long programs, and execution of jumps aside my favorite programs are now in this order:

1) Caroline

2) Mirai

3) Rachael

I think a big part of the program is the finish, and while I was hardly thrilled at the music Caroline chose-- it swells as it gets going and really finishes with a bang. I like how her spiral is near the end because its really sensational and directly followed by the pearl. Pretty effective. Rachael music cuts really did nothing for me except for the middle section (the actual main Theme) but that makes neither the first impression nor leaves the last impression. Mirai's, after viewing it again, is actually a very winning Carmen portrayal imo. Course it needs work but I saw alot of charm already there.

for all people who was disappointed in caroline zhangs skate.

i have a question Did the USFSA force caroline zhang to skate at golden west due to her injury_-(tenditis) why i bring it up--sasha pulled out of skate america for same reason and is using that not to go. Okay i told her to, but i sure wasn't expecting it. for me now she has to skate TWO perfect programs (sasha i mean )
also caroline zhang injury played a part in her teb (but no one brought that out).
favoritism played into that--yes but not for caroline zhang.

No, US Figure Skating did not FORCE Zhang to skate at GW. She could have been monitored privately later if she had asked. She had a bye to Nationals as well (top 5 from last year) so could have skipped her GP events and gone straight to Nationals. She has CHOSEN to not withdraw from TEB and SC.

There IS NO favoritism. Sasha gets a bye based on the rules set forth the same way Kwan did the previous OOOOO cycle to Nationals. Go look at the rules which are uniformly applied and get over it.

Mskater is right. In fact, about a month before Golden West, I asked Caroline's coach (her coach at the time) if she had to skate at Golden West for monitoring purposes or any other reason and she said no, she did not have to, she had a bye.
I personally think Caroline wanted to compete at Golden West. It is sponsored by her home club and she has done that competition every year since she was a little kid.

thank you-
it been reported that she Zhang had to skate at goldenwest regardless of what happened at last years nationals.
this was because the USFSA needed to see how competition ready she was and last summer competition of the season and something about being an elite skater. so she had to go not just be monitored.

She could have chosen to withdraw from TEB and didn't need to skate at GW. Since she was top 5 at Nats last year, she didn't have to compete GPs to save her spot at Nationals. She needed moniitoring, yes, before her GP per the US Figure Skating rules, but she didn't have to do her GPs to go to Nats this year

starrysky said:

there were a couple people who took videos of caroline and mirai (curiously, they didn't film rachel...) hopefully they will post the videos.

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That's exactly what I would have done

cornell08 said:

Indeed we are.

My ranking:

1) Ashley (both programs)
2) Caroline's short
3) Rachael's short
4) Mirai (both)
5) Rachael's long
6) Caroline's long

Also gonna throw in that I loved Ellie Kawamura's SP to 'Over the Rainbow' but that dress is...four shades too literal.

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1) Caroline's SP
2.) Mirai's LP
3.)Mirai's SP
4.)Caroline's LP

fairly4 said:

it been reported that she Zhang had to skate at goldenwest regardless of what happened at last years nationals.
this was because the USFSA needed to see how competition ready she was and last summer competition of the season and something about being an elite skater. so she had to go not just be monitored.

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Correct. As I understand it, all the U.S. Grand Prix skaters not in the Team A funding envelope, including Caroline Zhang, were required by USFS to skate both of their programs in a club competition at least 30 days before their GP event so that they could be monitored for spin/footwork levels, etc. If Zhang had been too injured to skate at Golden West, then chances are she would not have been recovered enough or ready to compete 5 weeks later at TEB. (Sasha Cohen reportedly was grouped with the Team A envelope athletes and monitored privately by USFS.)