Stats for ladies from 2008-09 season

Hi I've compiled some stats from last season.
And if you don't mind, I wanna share some with you.

I dont know much about FS (always learning a lot from this board. thanx guys)
but I love to deal with numbers and that's part of my day job.

One of things I like about COP is it gives me lots of numbers.
you know, in 6.0 there were not much to analyze. Just standings.
Now I can divide and 'compare' element by element.
And that's what I've done here.
If it's ok, I wanna add stats for each element to this thread.

So, it's the first part. ... the JUMPS

I've compiled points for jumps of last season's international competitions.
Subjects are 7 GP events (including final), EC, FC, and WC.
I excluded any 'invalid' element and ladies with less than 2 events and 10 marks.
Then I averaged points and GOEs for each ladies.
And sorted that for ladies with higher average_point first.

So here's the result.
Let me explain columns (although it's pretty obvious)
I included max points beside each average values in the brackets.

It's just a data and if anyone of you find it interesting, that's good enough for me.
(Sorry for my poor english)


POINT ( max ) | GOE ( max ) | Name
6.359 ( 11.50 ) | 0.643 ( 2.0 ) | Yu-Na KIM
5.796 ( 9.80 ) | 0.408 ( 2.0 ) | Joannie ROCHETTE
5.513 ( 11.30 ) | 0.192 ( 2.0 ) | Mao ASADA
5.404 ( 9.73 ) | -0.350 ( 0.8 ) | Rachael FLATT
5.399 ( 11.80 ) | -0.007 ( 1.4 ) | Miki ANDO
5.258 ( 8.63 ) | -0.250 ( 1.2 ) | Alena LEONOVA
5.110 ( 8.20 ) | -0.307 ( 0.8 ) | Akiko SUZUKI
5.007 ( 8.30 ) | 0.144 ( 1.4 ) | Fumie SUGURI
4.945 ( 9.50 ) | -0.505 ( 0.2 ) | Caroline ZHANG
4.894 ( 9.60 ) | 0.237 ( 1.6 ) | Laura LEPISTO
4.729 ( 8.50 ) | -0.308 ( 1.0 ) | Nina PETUSHKOVA
4.647 ( 8.28 ) | -0.057 ( 1.0 ) | Yukari NAKANO
4.622 ( 8.60 ) | -0.434 ( 1.0 ) | Amelie LACOSTE
4.570 ( 11.30 ) | -0.477 ( 1.8 ) | Carolina KOSTNER
4.560 ( 8.50 ) | -0.364 ( 1.0 ) | Susanna POYKIO
4.512 ( 7.35 ) | -0.368 ( 1.0 ) | Ashley WAGNER
4.486 ( 7.00 ) | 0.300 ( 1.0 ) | Ivana REITMAYEROVA
4.469 ( 7.50 ) | -0.460 ( 1.0 ) | Candice DIDIER
4.318 ( 7.26 ) | -0.145 ( 1.0 ) | Jenna MCCORKELL
4.289 ( 8.30 ) | -0.538 ( 1.0 ) | Sarah MEIER
4.121 ( 6.80 ) | -0.180 ( 0.8 ) | Anna JURKIEWICZ
4.081 ( 7.88 ) | -0.317 ( 1.2 ) | Cynthia PHANEUF
4.042 ( 8.23 ) | -0.433 ( 1.0 ) | Alissa CZISNY
4.029 ( 9.00 ) | -0.525 ( 1.0 ) | Elena GLEBOVA
3.986 ( 7.30 ) | -0.385 ( 0.6 ) | Yan LIU
3.801 ( 6.80 ) | -0.712 ( 0.6 ) | Katarina GERBOLDT
3.794 ( 6.27 ) | -0.911 ( 0.8 ) | Beatrisa LIANG
3.762 ( 8.90 ) | -0.359 ( 0.0 ) | Mira LEUNG
3.720 ( 6.93 ) | -0.757 ( 0.6 ) | Cheltzie LEE
3.663 ( 6.80 ) | -0.564 ( 0.6 ) | Katrina HACKER
3.643 ( 6.71 ) | -0.120 ( 1.2 ) | Nana TAKEDA
3.642 ( 5.72 ) | -0.706 ( 0.0 ) | Hyeon-Jung KIM
3.530 ( 9.00 ) | -0.575 ( 1.6 ) | Elene GEDEVANISHVILI
3.508 ( 8.30 ) | -0.394 ( 0.8 ) | Binshu XU
3.498 ( 7.00 ) | -0.773 ( 0.4 ) | Na-Young KIM
3.464 ( 6.80 ) | -0.658 ( 0.0 ) | Gwendoline DIDIER
3.457 ( 6.20 ) | -0.510 ( 0.2 ) | Francesca RIO
3.441 ( 8.70 ) | -0.508 ( 0.4 ) | Viktoria HELGESSON
3.417 ( 6.40 ) | -0.318 ( 0.8 ) | Kiira KORPI
3.409 ( 7.30 ) | -0.461 ( 0.8 ) | Kimmie MEISSNER
3.401 ( 6.70 ) | -0.292 ( 0.4 ) | Teodora POSTIC
3.399 ( 9.80 ) | -0.259 ( 1.0 ) | Julia SEBESTYEN
3.341 ( 5.80 ) | -0.590 ( 0.8 ) | Anastasia GIMAZETDINOVA
3.338 ( 5.80 ) | -0.551 ( 0.0 ) | Nella SIMAOVA
3.318 ( 8.00 ) | -0.644 ( 1.2 ) | Annette DYTRT
3.286 ( 5.60 ) | -0.320 ( 0.4 ) | Karly ROBERTSON
3.262 ( 5.00 ) | -1.020 ( 0.0 ) | Manouk GIJSMAN
3.005 ( 7.70 ) | -0.602 ( 0.4 ) | Irina MOVCHAN
2.880 ( 6.38 ) | -0.743 ( 0.8 ) | Tugba KARADEMIR
2.802 ( 6.30 ) | -0.545 ( 1.4 ) | Kerstin FRANK
2.736 ( 5.80 ) | -0.635 ( 0.2 ) | Ana Cecilia CANTU
2.699 ( 6.10 ) | -0.337 ( 0.8 ) | Chaochih LIU
2.691 ( 7.30 ) | -0.505 ( 1.0 ) | Mirai NAGASU
2.616 ( 7.80 ) | -0.734 ( 0.4 ) | Emily HUGHES
2.586 ( 5.63 ) | -1.260 ( 0.2 ) | Myriane SAMSON
2.546 ( 3.87 ) | -0.372 ( 0.0 ) | Tina WANG
2.480 ( 5.90 ) | -0.843 ( 0.4 ) | Sonia LAFUENTE
2.297 ( 5.70 ) | -0.595 ( 0.4 ) | Isabelle PIEMAN
2.273 ( 5.60 ) | -0.860 ( 0.8 ) | Jenni VAHAMAA
1.875 ( 4.71 ) | -0.685 ( 0.0 ) | Yueren WANG
1.835 ( 6.00 ) | -0.544 ( 0.2 ) | Stefania BERTON
1.794 ( 4.80 ) | -0.328 ( 0.0 ) | Loretta HAMUI
1.652 ( 6.10 ) | -0.398 ( 0.0 ) | Michele CANTU
1.556 ( 5.60 ) | -0.532 ( 0.0 ) | Tamami ONO
1.484 ( 4.10 ) | -0.931 ( 0.6 ) | Gracielle Jeanne TAN

This totally rocks! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

A couple of things stand out. Only three skaters on the whole list had overall positive GOEs, with Kim and Rochette way ahead of everyone else, even Asada and Ando,

Yu-na Kim dominated the field. She averaged over 6 base points on her jump elements -- and this iincludes lower valued jumping passes like solo double Axels at 3.5. Of course, some were combos, but still...

Welcome to the forum poorScorer. Keep the good stuff coming.

Mathman said:

A couple of things stand out. Only three skaters on the whole list had overall positive GOEs, with Kim and Rochette way ahead of everyone else, even Asada and Ando

Click to expand...

Looks to me like they were sorted by points rather than GOEs. Other than Joannie, Mao and Yu-Na, the following ladies appear to have had overall positive GOEs: Fumie Suguri, Laura Lepisto, and Ivana Reitmayerova (of all people - higher GOE average than Mao!). That's still a very short list. Also, Miki is at -.007, which I think can be considered neutral.

I'd be curious to see the men's jumps sorted out like that. My guess is that the top guys in terms of jump value won't be the highest with the GOEs.

Mathman, you are one of 'GOLD' GSers who I admire.
(I'm sure many internet FS fans are same side with me. )
So, I'm kind of honored that you enjoyed my work. ^^

I'm sorry if I wasnt clear enough how I sorted my list.
Buttercup is right, of course.
average_point_of_value (at 1st column ) is my sorting standard.
I guess it's just natural way.

Buttercup, I want to post men's data on separate thread.
Again, thank you for reading and commenting.

This set of stats is great!
Looking forward to read more from you :agree:

Love it; thanks poorscorer. It really interesting.

SPIN part

Hi
my 2nd list for ladies ... upon SPIN

I'll just mention different part from JUMP list.

I included only ladies with more than 2 events, and valid mark more than 12 times.
That made the list much shorter.

Columns and sorting order are same,
but I made additional column 'Level4', which checks how many Level4 marked out of total.
For example, Czisny got Level4 for spin 17 times out of 24 chances.

POINT ( max ) | GOE ( max ) ___| Level4 | Name
3.879 ( 4.60 ) | +0.883 ( 1.30 ) | 17/24 | Alissa CZISNY
3.689 ( 4.50 ) | +0.706 ( 1.50 ) | 14/18 | Caroline ZHANG
3.611 ( 4.20 ) | +0.672 ( 0.90 ) | 10/18 | Yukari NAKANO
3.567 ( 4.20 ) | +0.592 ( 1.00 ) | 10/12 | Mirai NAGASU
3.483 ( 4.30 ) | +0.530 ( 1.10 ) | 19/30 | Mao ASADA
3.467 ( 4.00 ) | +0.450 ( 0.70 ) | 10/12 | Ashley WAGNER
3.410 ( 4.50 ) | +0.482 ( 1.00 ) | 19/29 | Yu-Na KIM
3.379 ( 4.30 ) | +0.517 ( 0.80 ) | 15/24 | Laura LEPISTO
3.300 ( 3.70 ) | +0.333 ( 0.60 ) | 8/12 | Katrina HACKER
3.283 ( 3.90 ) | +0.222 ( 0.50 ) | 12/18 | Tugba KARADEMIR
3.275 ( 4.00 ) | +0.271 ( 0.70 ) | 17/24 | Cynthia PHANEUF
3.178 ( 4.00 ) | +0.237 ( 0.50 ) | 9/12 | Beatrisa LIANG
3.170 ( 3.80 ) | +0.113 ( 0.50 ) | 17/23 | Rachael FLATT
3.166 ( 3.90 ) | +0.249 ( 0.50 ) | 21/30 | Joannie ROCHETTE
3.162 ( 4.20 ) | +0.244 ( 0.70 ) | 17/23 | Fumie SUGURI
3.150 ( 3.90 ) | +0.417 ( 0.80 ) | 3/12 | Sarah MEIER
3.147 ( 4.00 ) | +0.300 ( 0.90 ) | 7/15 | Elene GEDEVANISHVILI
3.142 ( 3.80 ) | +0.267 ( 0.70 ) | 5/12 | Akiko SUZUKI
3.136 ( 3.90 ) | +0.173 ( 0.60 ) | 17/24 | Na-Young KIM
3.125 ( 3.80 ) | +0.225 ( 0.60 ) | 6/12 | Ivana REITMAYEROVA
3.113 ( 4.40 ) | +0.346 ( 0.90 ) | 9/24 | Miki ANDO
3.068 ( 3.80 ) | +0.118 ( 0.50 ) | 5/12 | Kerstin FRANK
3.019 ( 4.10 ) | +0.150 ( 0.60 ) | 16/29 | Carolina KOSTNER
3.017 ( 3.80 ) | +0.167 ( 0.50 ) | 5/12 | Mira LEUNG
2.875 ( 3.80 ) | +0.158 ( 0.40 ) | 4/12 | Julia SEBESTYEN
2.868 ( 3.80 ) | +0.088 ( 0.70 ) | 12/24 | Alena LEONOVA
2.862 ( 3.80 ) | +0.218 ( 0.70 ) | 5/18 | Binshu XU
2.843 ( 4.10 ) | +0.127 ( 0.60 ) | 3/12 | Ana Cecilia CANTU
2.787 ( 3.70 ) | +0.026 ( 0.20 ) | 7/18 | Jenna MCCORKELL
2.771 ( 3.60 ) | +0.221 ( 0.50 ) | 4/24 | Susanna POYKIO
2.743 ( 3.80 ) | +0.213 ( 0.70 ) | 4/24 | Annette DYTRT
2.733 ( 4.00 ) | +0.067 ( 0.50 ) | 5/18 | Candice DIDIER
2.725 ( 3.50 ) | +0.150 ( 0.50 ) | 3/12 | Katarina GERBOLDT
2.640 ( 3.60 ) | -0.002 ( 0.20 ) | 3/12 | Yueren WANG
2.607 ( 3.60 ) | +0.082 ( 0.60 ) | 7/24 | Elena GLEBOVA
2.480 ( 3.30 ) | +0.147 ( 0.40 ) | 1/12 | Kimmie MEISSNER
2.339 ( 3.20 ) | -0.018 ( 0.40 ) | 1/21 | Anastasia GIMAZETDINOVA
2.330 ( 3.54 ) | +0.045 ( 0.50 ) | 1/21 | Yan LIU

I noticed total (well except Kimmie) dominance of US ladies here.
wow what's the secret?

poorScorer! :agree:

Thank you for your effort here!
BTW, What competitions? National and ISU hosting? or every competitions taking part in?

Whatever, good job!:thumbsup:

Interesting that the USFSA decided to send the nation's best jumper (Rachael) and best spinner (Alissa) to the 2009 World Championships based on these statistics. Despite all the controversy upon Czisny's selection, I don't think the U.S. ladies would have achieved the much coveted 3 spots to this season's major championships had a different team been named. I say that in particular thinking of Zhang's tendency to skate subpar short programs. They all have their technique and consistency problems.

I think it is funny how obvious the women stats are. The exact numbers are not but when you look at the order of the list. I could have came up with the same list by just what i remembered from watching the competitions. They fall in line like clockwork. The men is a lot more surprising.

Also the average elite skater jump seems to be worth 6pts
while a spin is worth 4pts. Not a huge differens but seven jumps vs three spins

museksk8r said:

Despite all the controversy upon Czisny's selection, I don't think the U.S. ladies would have achieved the much coveted 3 spots to this season's major championships had a different team been named. I say that in particular thinking of Zhang's tendency to skate subpar short programs. They all have their technique and consistency problems.

Click to expand...

IIRC, Caroline finished higher than Rachael after the short and long in both the international competitions in which they competed against each other last season. I think they both did the same jump layouts in the SP: 3-3 (last triple downgraded to a double), 2A, and a solo triple. We all know how Caroline usually does in the long, so I think there's a strong possibility that had she gone to Worlds, she would've finished ahead of Rachael.

Of course there's no guarantee, but I think it's safe to say Caroline would have at least placed higher than Alissa. The latter couldn't do very well at Worlds, to begin with; in addition to being wildly inconsistent, she just doesn't have the technical difficulty and sound enough technique (lip, URs) to be competitive with the top girls.

Andalusia said:

IIRC, Caroline finished higher than Rachael after the short and long in both the international competitions in which they competed against each other last season. I think they both did the same jump layouts in the SP: 3-3 (last triple downgraded to a double), 2A, and a solo triple. We all know how Caroline usually does in the long, so I think there's a strong possibility that had she gone to Worlds, she would've finished ahead of Rachael.

Of course there's no guarantee, but I think it's safe to say Caroline would have at least placed higher than Alissa. The latter just couldn't do very at Worlds, to begin with; in addition to being wildly inconsistent, she just doesn't have the technical difficulty and sound enough technique (lip, URs) to be competitive with the top girls.

Click to expand...

I disagree with both paragraphs, we simply won't know what would've happened. Maybe Caroline would have become World Champion, maybe she would have placed above Rachael, maybe not, maybe she would have withdrawn, maybe she would have finished dead last. Why can't we let it be just that? An unresolved question.

Alicja said:

I disagree with both paragraphs, we simply won't know what would've happened. Maybe Caroline would have become World Champion, maybe she would have placed above Rachael, maybe not, maybe she would have withdrawn, maybe she would have finished dead last. Why can't we let it be just that? An unresolved question.

Click to expand...

I know it's a dead horse argument, but since someone else brought the subject up first, I thought it would be safe to respond.

We will never know what would've happened for sure, of course. We can only go by probability based on previous results and what not. That's how discussions begin on message boards like this - we begin with a germ of something and follow a downward spiral from there.

I just thought it was interesting that museksk8r brought up the fact that Zhang has a tendency to skate subpar shorts; she does, but she did just that at both 4CC and the WTT last season and still finished ahead of Flatt after the SP.

Mathman said:

This totally rocks! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Click to expand...

dear Lord, we've acquired MM's clone...

welcome aboard, poorScorer!

dkyoun said:

BTW, What competitions? National and ISU hosting? or every competitions taking part in?

Click to expand...

I included only international competitons.
As I wrote before, they are 6 GP events, GP Final,
European Championship, 4 Continents Championship, and World.

Unlike the jump statistics, almost all of the ladies got positive GOEs on their spins.

Spiral Sequence

Hi
Here's my 3rd stat for ladies upon Spiral Sequence.

All ladies with total 3 marks or more included here.
Meaning of 'Level4' column is same as SPIN part.
For example, Alissa got Level4 mark in all her 8 tries.


POINT ( max ) | GOE ( max )__ | Level4 | Name
5.100 ( 5.40 ) | +1.700 ( 2.0 ) | 8/8 | Alissa CZISNY
4.870 ( 5.40 ) | +1.500 ( 2.0 ) | 9/10 | Yu-Na KIM
4.625 ( 5.20 ) | +1.300 ( 1.8 ) | 3/4 | Katrina HACKER
4.450 ( 5.40 ) | +1.367 ( 2.0 ) | 4/6 | Caroline ZHANG
4.440 ( 4.80 ) | +1.070 ( 1.4 ) | 9/10 | Joannie ROCHETTE
4.400 ( 4.60 ) | +1.000 ( 1.2 ) | 6/6 | Yukari NAKANO
4.350 ( 4.60 ) | +0.950 ( 1.2 ) | 4/4 | Beatrisa LIANG
4.300 ( 4.80 ) | +0.938 ( 1.4 ) | 7/8 | Rachael FLATT
4.200 ( 5.00 ) | +1.050 ( 1.6 ) | 6/10 | Mao ASADA
4.125 ( 4.60 ) | +0.875 ( 1.2 ) | 2/4 | Ashley WAGNER
4.100 ( 4.60 ) | +0.700 ( 1.2 ) | 4/4 | Akiko SUZUKI
4.050 ( 4.40 ) | +0.750 ( 1.0 ) | 4/6 | Tugba KARADEMIR
4.000 ( 4.80 ) | +0.920 ( 1.4 ) | 4/5 | Elene GEDEVANISHVILI
4.000 ( 4.80 ) | +0.675 ( 1.4 ) | 6/8 | Fumie SUGURI
3.963 ( 4.60 ) | +0.638 ( 1.2 ) | 6/8 | Cynthia PHANEUF
3.878 ( 4.40 ) | +0.690 ( 1.0 ) | 5/8 | Miki ANDO
3.875 ( 4.40 ) | +0.675 ( 1.0 ) | 7/8 | Annette DYTRT
3.867 ( 4.40 ) | +0.467 ( 1.0 ) | 3/3 | Nella SIMAOVA
3.867 ( 4.40 ) | +0.567 ( 1.0 ) | 4/6 | Candice DIDIER
3.740 ( 5.00 ) | +0.750 ( 1.6 ) | 5/10 | Carolina KOSTNER
3.675 ( 4.40 ) | +0.350 ( 1.0 ) | 6/8 | Elena GLEBOVA
3.500 ( 3.80 ) | +0.175 ( 0.4 ) | 6/8 | Na-Young KIM
3.467 ( 4.00 ) | +0.383 ( 0.6 ) | 4/6 | Binshu XU
3.467 ( 3.60 ) | +0.067 ( 0.2 ) | 3/3 | Cheltzie LEE
3.425 ( 3.80 ) | +0.175 ( 0.4 ) | 2/4 | Ivana REITMAYEROVA
3.425 ( 3.60 ) | +0.100 ( 0.2 ) | 3/4 | Kerstin FRANK
3.350 ( 4.80 ) | +0.700 ( 1.4 ) | 1/4 | Mirai NAGASU
3.325 ( 4.40 ) | +0.413 ( 1.0 ) | 2/8 | Laura LEPISTO
3.325 ( 4.00 ) | +0.275 ( 0.6 ) | 3/8 | Susanna POYKIO
3.293 ( 4.00 ) | +0.093 ( 0.6 ) | 1/3 | Gracielle Jeanne TAN
3.275 ( 4.00 ) | +0.188 ( 0.6 ) | 4/8 | Alena LEONOVA
3.253 ( 3.40 ) | -0.047 ( 0.0 ) | 2/3 | Teodora POSTIC
3.233 ( 4.00 ) | +0.200 ( 0.6 ) | 2/3 | Isabelle PIEMAN
3.187 ( 3.30 ) | +0.087 ( 0.2 ) | 0/3 | Irina MOVCHAN
3.153 ( 3.40 ) | -0.047 ( 0.0 ) | 1/3 | Chaochih LIU
3.125 ( 3.60 ) | +0.150 ( 0.3 ) | 1/4 | Sarah MEIER
3.100 ( 4.00 ) | +0.233 ( 0.6 ) | 2/3 | Tamami ONO
3.075 ( 3.50 ) | +0.175 ( 0.4 ) | 0/4 | Yueren WANG
3.071 ( 4.20 ) | +0.343 ( 0.8 ) | 1/7 | Yan LIU
2.975 ( 3.40 ) | +0.050 ( 0.2 ) | 2/4 | Ana Cecilia CANTU
2.950 ( 3.30 ) | +0.117 ( 0.2 ) | 0/6 | Jenna MCCORKELL
2.900 ( 3.40 ) | +0.125 ( 0.3 ) | 0/4 | Julia SEBESTYEN
2.880 ( 3.30 ) | +0.047 ( 0.2 ) | 0/3 | Sonia LAFUENTE
2.785 ( 4.20 ) | +0.260 ( 0.8 ) | 1/4 | Mira LEUNG
2.713 ( 3.30 ) | +0.047 ( 0.2 ) | 0/3 | Viktoria HELGESSON
2.623 ( 3.10 ) | -0.106 ( 0.0 ) | 0/7 | Anastasia GIMAZETDINOVA
2.615 ( 3.10 ) | -0.085 ( 0.0 ) | 0/4 | Katarina GERBOLDT
2.290 ( 3.06 ) | +0.040 ( 0.1 ) | 0/4 | Kimmie MEISSNER

I never realized that Bebe and Tugba had such decent spirals. I will definitely make sure to notice that from now on. =] Thanks for the stats!

poorScorer said:

Hi
Here's my 3rd stat for ladies upon Spiral Sequence.

All ladies with total 3 marks or more included here.
Meaning of 'Level4' column is same as SPIN part.
For example, Alissa got Level4 mark in all her 8 tries.

Click to expand...

Wow, it's really cool!

Good job, poorScorer! :agree: