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Thread: ISU JGP Minsk, Belarus 23 - 27 Sept, 2009

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    I see - that's why a US-American couple is currently leading the ice-dance competition at Nebelhorn with, let's see, 14 points or something like that? Thanks for the useful explanation.
    That couple happened to finish 4th at 2009 Worlds, and it was assumed that they would win this competition by a wide margin. Their closest competitors, the Zaretskis, were 13th at Worlds, and the big point difference after the OD between the two is entirely expected.

    That has nothing to do with the subject, which is stacking panels so they are overwhelmingly one-sided. I would object just as much to a panel that was composed of mostly Asian and non-NA, non-European judges (eg. CHN, JPN, TPE, KOR, AUS, RSA). IMO, the ideal panel would be balanced and an attempt made to ensure that no one area is over-represented.

  2. #32
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by life684 View Post
    US; say from Alaska.
    according to most citizens of the US, Alaska is not part of the US(aka not a state, can't count the number of times I've been asked what the price of wildride is in US dollars... ummmmm) ... and most of us would prefer it that way anymore not only that it wouldn't work, because we were once a Russian territory, so we're naturally biased towards Russia

    but other than that - why not alaska?

  3. #33
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    That couple happened to finish 4th at 2009 Worlds, and it was assumed that they would win this competition by a wide margin. Their closest competitors, the Zaretskis, were 13th at Worlds, and the big point difference after the OD between the two is entirely expected.
    No, I don't think it should be. A point difference is certainly to be expected, but the Zaretskis aren't as mediocre as you suggest (and at 2008 Worlds, they were 9th to D/W's 6th, so what does that prove? Nothing). Let's see the FD and how the scoring pans out; I've read that D/W's FD is, let's see, currently in need of refinement?

    2009 Worlds podiums: Russian, US, Canadian (dance - followed by a second US team and a French team); German, Chinese, Russian (pairs); US, Canada, France (men); South Korea, Canada, Japan (ladies). Oh, those evil Eastern European judges. How dare they. And before anyone gets started, there was no great Canadian conspiracy, either.

    There are only two NA countries, and, as anyone who has watched Eurovision voting knows, there are considerably more in Europe, many of them with a communist past (do you think that necessarily endears Russia to them?). If you have several such judges on a panel, it's reflects geography and the luck of the draw, not some vast wuzrobbing conspiracy.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 09-25-2009 at 01:21 AM.

  4. #34
    Ice Dancing and Johnny Fan MissIzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    2009 Worlds podiums: Russian, US, Canadian (dance - followed by a second US team and a French team)
    And that the Americans were given that much was so obviously proof that the judges don't shut them out, even though there's a good argument Tanith and Ben should've won, and even if they shouldn't have, Meryl and Charlie should. Have. Won. That. Bronze. Sorry, but what happened to Meryl and Charlie alone makes this a bad example.
    Though certainly Routhier and Sacke-Lacelle and Tibbets and Brubaker seem to be doing okay after the OD, ahead of the Ukrainians. But hey, why shouldn't they be? The Russians are still winning, and this isn't the most significant of events anyway.

  5. #35
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissIzzy View Post
    Sorry, but what happened to Meryl and Charlie alone makes this a bad example.
    Yes, poor Meryl and Charlie, cruelly pushed off the podium by the Russians. I mean, the Canadians. Oh, never mind, Canadians are the new Russians anyway.

    This has nothing to do with the JGP in Minsk, so I'll drop the discussion. But the argument that NA skaters are being deprived of medals due to Eastern European politicking is silly and not very convincing. As though politics are limited to federations on one side to the Atlantic.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 09-25-2009 at 06:03 AM.

  6. #36
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    ^^ If there's german judge on the panel, conspiracy-theory-lovers should certainly try to find a biography of him/her to figure out whether he/she is from the former GDR. Very important for Eastern block politicking..... Sorry, I couldn't resist

  7. #37
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    Has anyone seen the competition or bickering is just looking at the names of the judges. The discussion here seems to suggest that in a fair world North American skater should win no matter what; Even fairer world athletes from USA should win gold and well, Canadians cans have silver and Bronze medals.

    Whole topic of Was robbed is over used to such extent that one automatically expect some one to use it when Russians or Europeans win the title (especially when N.Americans have sniffing chance of the medal). Only problem now is even if some one is actually robbed it will still look more like smear campaign.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    according to most citizens of the US, Alaska is not part of the US(aka not a state, can't count the number of times I've been asked what the price of wildride is in US dollars... ummmmm) ... and most of us would prefer it that way anymore not only that it wouldn't work, because we were once a Russian territory, so we're naturally biased towards Russia

    but other than that - why not alaska?
    That could be objectionable to some section of skating fans. Another region once part of Soviet Union or Russia

  9. #39
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    Junior Men - Short Program

    Result Details

    1 Artur GACHINSKI RUS 61.01 33.47 27.54 5.61 5.11 5.68 5.50 5.64 0.00 #11
    2 Stanislav KOVALEV RUS 59.75 32.74 27.01 5.43 5.11 5.54 5.32 5.61 0.00 #18
    3 Liam FIRUS CAN 55.65 30.15 25.50 5.14 4.93 5.14 5.18 5.11 0.00 #12
    4 Nan SONG CHN 55.52 30.27 25.25 5.29 4.86 4.96 5.07 5.07 0.00 #4
    5 Jiaxing LIU CHN 52.10 28.12 23.98 5.00 4.54 4.79 4.79 4.86 0.00 #1
    6 Dmitri IGNATENKO UKR 50.63 28.45 22.18 4.68 4.18 4.50 4.50 4.32 0.00 #14
    7 Alexander ZAHRADNICEK USA 49.53 24.17 25.36 5.14 4.86 5.11 5.11 5.14 0.00 #13
    8 Eliot HALVERSON USA 48.23 22.22 27.01 5.29 5.29 5.46 5.36 5.61 1.00 #20
    9 Ryuichi KIHARA JPN 46.42 23.39 24.03 5.00 4.57 4.89 4.71 4.86 1.00 #10
    10 Romain PONSART FRA 46.37 22.37 24.00 4.82 4.54 4.96 4.79 4.89 0.00 #19
    11 Kamil BIALAS POL 46.36 24.44 21.92 4.39 4.14 4.46 4.39 4.54 0.00 #5
    12 Paul FENTZ GER 44.75 21.43 23.32 4.75 4.36 4.75 4.71 4.75 0.00 #15
    13 Abzal RAKIMGALIEV KAZ 41.69 22.38 21.31 4.39 3.96 4.43 4.14 4.39 2.00 #2
    14 Slavik HAYRAPETYAN ARM 41.43 20.43 21.00 4.00 3.86 4.39 4.39 4.36 0.00 #8
    15 Alexei MIALIONKHIN BLR 39.56 19.74 19.82 4.21 3.79 4.00 4.00 3.82 0.00 #21
    16 Harry MATTICK GBR 37.38 17.28 21.10 4.18 3.93 4.21 4.21 4.57 1.00 #9
    17 Dmitri KAGIROV BLR 36.52 16.83 20.69 4.36 3.93 4.29 4.07 4.04 1.00 #17
    18 Vlad IONESCU ROU 34.03 16.91 17.12 3.54 3.18 3.61 3.50 3.29 0.00 #22
    19 Pavel IGNATENKO BLR 31.60 15.60 18.00 3.93 3.36 3.64 3.61 3.46 2.00 #16
    20 Engin Ali ARTAN TUR 30.90 16.50 15.40 3.25 2.79 3.11 3.11 3.14 1.00 #7
    21 Girts JEKABSONS LAT 26.12 11.55 14.57 3.11 2.75 2.96 3.00 2.75 0.00 #6
    22 Samuel KOPPEL EST 24.30 10.34 14.96 3.07 2.79 3.07 3.07 2.96 1.00 #3

    Junior Ice Dance - Original Dance

    Folk / Country Dance

    Result Details

    1 Ksenia MONKO / Kirill KHALIAVIN RUS 54.65 29.23 25.42 6.79 6.50 6.58 6.75 6.79 0.00 #13
    2 Rachel TIBBETTS / Collin BRUBAKER USA 47.67 25.65 22.02 5.96 5.58 5.88 5.79 5.79 0.00 #15
    3 Karen ROUTHIER / Eric SAUCKE-LACELLE CAN 46.35 24.89 21.46 5.63 5.58 5.67 5.58 5.75 0.00 #10
    4 Alisa AGAFONOVA / Dmitri DUN UKR 46.27 23.64 23.63 6.00 6.04 6.13 6.50 6.42 1.00 #11
    5 Maria POPKOVA / Viktor KOVALENKO UZB 43.73 25.03 18.70 4.79 4.67 5.00 5.08 5.08 0.00 #9
    6 Tatiana BATURINTSEVA / Ivan VOLOBUIEV RUS 42.49 22.36 21.13 5.58 5.42 5.54 5.63 5.63 1.00 #14
    7 Anastasia CANNUSCIO / Colin MCMANUS USA 42.21 23.40 18.81 4.88 4.83 4.92 5.04 5.08 0.00 #12
    8 Xueting GUAN / Meng WANG CHN 39.98 22.27 17.71 4.83 4.42 4.58 4.75 4.71 0.00 #17
    9 Nicole ORFORD / Malcolm Rohon O'HALLORAN CAN 38.48 22.40 16.08 4.17 4.04 4.21 4.33 4.38 0.00 #3
    10 Tiffany ZAHORSKI / Alexis MIART FRA 37.49 20.18 17.31 4.58 4.33 4.46 4.67 4.71 0.00 #16
    11 Viktoria KAVALEVA / Yirii BIELIAIEV BLR 36.84 21.26 15.58 4.04 3.92 4.13 4.33 4.13 0.00 #8
    12 Roxane BATTU / Amaury MALLET FRA 32.82 20.60 14.22 3.75 3.63 3.67 3.88 3.79 2.00 #7
    13 Ksenia PECHERKINA / Aleksander JAKUSHIN LAT 32.53 18.46 14.07 3.79 3.54 3.75 3.75 3.71 0.00 #6
    14 Sophie JONES / Richard SHARPE GBR 31.57 17.93 13.64 3.63 3.38 3.79 3.71 3.54 0.00 #2
    15 Emili ARM / Rodion BOGDANOV EST 28.08 15.93 12.15 3.25 3.08 3.21 3.38 3.13 0.00 #5
    16 Veronika SHINKEVICH / Vladislav ABRAMOV BLR 27.36 15.51 11.85 3.21 2.96 3.13 3.38 3.00 0.00 #1
    17 Karina LASHUK / Vladimir KISLIAKOV BLR 26.66 16.47 11.19 2.75 2.83 3.00 3.21 3.00 1.00 #4

    Junior Ice Dance

    Result

    FPl. Name Nation Points CD OD FD
    1 Ksenia MONKO / Kirill KHALIAVIN RUS
    88.39 1 1
    2 Karen ROUTHIER / Eric SAUCKE-LACELLE CAN
    78.26 2 3
    3 Rachel TIBBETTS / Collin BRUBAKER USA
    77.83 4 2
    4 Alisa AGAFONOVA / Dmitri DUN UKR
    76.49 3 4
    5 Tatiana BATURINTSEVA / Ivan VOLOBUIEV RUS
    72.50 5 6
    6 Anastasia CANNUSCIO / Colin MCMANUS USA
    69.69 6 7
    7 Maria POPKOVA / Viktor KOVALENKO UZB
    69.05 8 5
    8 Xueting GUAN / Meng WANG CHN
    66.34 7 8
    9 Tiffany ZAHORSKI / Alexis MIART FRA
    61.84 9 10
    10 Nicole ORFORD / Malcolm Rohon O'HALLORAN CAN
    61.57 11 9
    11 Viktoria KAVALEVA / Yirii BIELIAIEV BLR
    61.04 10 11
    12 Roxane BATTU / Amaury MALLET FRA
    55.84 12 12
    13 Ksenia PECHERKINA / Aleksander JAKUSHIN LAT
    53.81 14 13
    14 Sophie JONES / Richard SHARPE GBR
    52.14 15 14
    15 Veronika SHINKEVICH / Vladislav ABRAMOV BLR
    49.25 13 16
    16 Emili ARM / Rodion BOGDANOV EST
    48.02 16 15
    17 Karina LASHUK / Vladimir KISLIAKOV BLR
    45.44 17 17

    I thought Eliot would have did a lot better; oh well here comes the russian domination; They have a good chance of taking all the disciplines.

  10. #40
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    61 points for the best men's SP - sounds like a bad competition....

  11. #41
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    i thought so also.

  12. #42
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    The people at forum.fsonline.ru are posting pictures of the protocols.

    Both Alex Z and Halverson missed their combo, and Elliot's lutz was downgraded as well. Both had a spin not count.

  13. #43
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    That Russian forum also reports that the German girl, Nathalie, had - 5 deductions. Poor girl. I hope she's able to just put this competition behind her.

  14. #44
    Custom Title MikiAndoFan#1's Avatar
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    Ladies' LP:

    1 Polina SHELEPEN RUS 101.43 58.12 43.31 5.54 5.18 5.46 5.50 5.39 0.00 #26
    2 Yuki NISHINO JPN 97.13 53.99 43.14 5.50 5.07 5.50 5.43 5.46 0.00 #22
    3 Ksenia MAKAROVA RUS 77.34 36.64 41.70 5.39 5.04 5.14 5.29 5.21 1.00 #24
    4 Kristiene GONG USA 76.32 36.38 39.94 5.14 4.75 5.04 5.00 5.04 0.00 #23
    5 Jasmine Alexandra COSTA EST 73.63 34.30 39.33 5.11 4.68 4.86 5.04 4.89 0.00 #25
    6 Alexandra NAJARRO CAN 72.90 37.97 35.93 4.64 4.25 4.57 4.50 4.50 1.00 #12
    7 Malin MAGNUSSON-RUF SWE 70.89 36.82 35.07 4.57 4.21 4.39 4.32 4.43 1.00 #16
    8 Belinda SCHOENBERGER AUT 70.55 37.18 33.37 4.43 3.96 4.18 4.07 4.21 0.00 #13
    9 Karolina SYKOROVA SVK 69.30 36.37 33.93 4.50 4.07 4.18 4.32 4.14 1.00 #17
    10 Kexin ZHANG CHN 66.62 34.31 35.31 4.82 4.14 4.36 4.43 4.32 3.00 #21
    11 Julia PFRENGLE GER 65.37 32.67 33.70 4.46 4.04 4.14 4.29 4.14 1.00 #20
    12 Yea-Ji YUN KOR 60.48 29.34 35.14 4.71 4.29 4.29 4.39 4.29 4.00 #19
    13 Alice VELATI ITA 60.34 27.30 34.04 4.39 3.96 4.39 4.29 4.25 1.00 #14
    14 Dasa GRM SLO 58.06 29.89 28.17 3.82 3.25 3.54 3.61 3.39 0.00 #7
    15 Lauren KO PHI 57.51 27.49 31.02 4.07 3.79 3.89 3.93 3.71 1.00 #9
    16 Ksenia BAKUSHEVA BLR 57.48 24.89 32.59 4.11 3.82 4.11 4.11 4.21 0.00 #15
    17 Laney DIGGS USA 56.70 23.89 35.81 4.64 4.32 4.32 4.57 4.54 3.00 #18
    18 Zanna PUGACA LAT 55.62 26.37 29.25 3.82 3.39 3.71 3.75 3.61 0.00 #8
    19 Toni MURRAY GBR 53.17 23.92 29.25 3.75 3.50 3.64 3.68 3.71 0.00 #6
    20 Katsiarina PAHARTSAVA BLR 50.39 26.79 23.60 3.32 2.75 2.96 2.93 2.79 0.00 #1
    21 Anastasia LISTOPAD UKR 47.29 16.27 32.02 4.11 3.75 3.93 4.04 4.18 1.00 #11
    22 Taryn JURGENSEN THA 47.09 17.87 30.22 3.82 3.57 3.75 3.82 3.93 1.00 #10
    23 Birce ATABEY TUR 42.41 20.03 23.38 3.04 2.93 2.86 2.96 2.82 1.00 #3
    24 Kotryna KARALIUTE LTU 41.74 18.95 23.79 3.18 2.86 2.93 2.96 2.93 1.00 #2
    25 Nathalie WEINZIERL GER 38.60 17.15 26.45 3.57 3.25 3.11 3.39 3.21 5.00 #5
    26 Nastassia HRYBKO BLR 36.03 14.85 23.18 3.14 2.89 2.68 2.96 2.82 2.00 #4

    Go Yuki! What a great recovery!


  15. #45
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    Polina, Yuki and Ksenia

    Polina did a 3S+3T and a 2A+3T

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