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Thread: Underrotation question

  1. #1
    just call me K or Art jockey
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    Underrotation question

    Now, I have a somewhat strange question and I hope someone can answer it for me.

    It's actually really simple: Can single jumps be underrotated (technically, of course, they can) and how are they judged or called? Are they meant to be downgraded and if yes to what are they downgraded?

    I know that an attempt at an element or entry on an element followed by an imediate fall takes up an element spot and is not valid any points. Much like Asada's Triple Axel attempt at 2008 Worlds. Same goes for spins if you fall right aber the entry.

    But how is a single jump scored if you underrotate it and how many points to you get. Is it downgraded to 0???

    Thanks for any insights in advance
    Last edited by Kunstrijdster; 10-03-2009 at 10:12 AM.

  2. #2
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post
    I know that an attempt at an element or entry on an element followed by an imediate fall takes up an element spot and is not valid any points.
    Yes, this is what would happen.

    And underrotated single jump wouldn't be much of anything at all.

    The most likely situation I can think of for such a move to occur would be when a skater lands a jump and tries to do it in combination, but their blade was swinging too wide and/or their toepick gets caught, so they basically never really leave the ice when they attempt the second jump.

  3. #3
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    It's called as the single jump with a downgrade symbol, e.g., 1A< or 1Lz<, etc., and it receives no value.

    If it's a solo jump, then the attempt fills a jump box but gets no score.

    If it's a combination, or even an unintentional combination caused by a rotating hop on the landing, e.g., 2F+1Lo<, then the score would be the base mark for the jump that does have a value with whatever GOE each judge thinks the element as a whole deserves, which would probably be negative.

  4. #4
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    For questions about how elements are called by the tech panel, the best source is the Technical Panel Handbook.

    For this question, look at the section on "Popped listed jumps" on p. 14.

    It doesn't directly address how to handle a downgraded single jump in a combination when the other jump is rotated enough to earn a base value. That doesn't happen very often at junior and senior levels.

  5. #5
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Any jump can be underrotated - even a single jump. Sometimes a skater simply does not complete a jump. This is also known as a popped jump, and yes a skater would lose marks. It really takes away from the choreography and overall look of the program when this happens.

  6. #6
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater View Post
    Any jump can be underrotated - even a single jump. Sometimes a skater simply does not complete a jump. This is also known as a popped jump, and yes a skater would lose marks. It really takes away from the choreography and overall look of the program when this happens.
    I've never understood "popped" jumps to be underotated jumps in the sense of - the rotation not being all the way round either by pre-rotating on the ice or finishing the rotation on the ice. I always understood "popped" jumps to be when a skater intends to do a particular jump (at the senior level usually a triple jump or a double axel) but for whatever reasons opens up in the air and completes just a single or double jump instead of the intended triple.

    Popped jumps are scored as the jump that was completed (unless there are rotation issues with it as well like e.g. if a skater sets up a salchow, goes up wonky in the air and opens up after one rotation but continues rotating on the way down and lands forward) so that a skater who sets up a triple lutz but opens up at the top of the jump and lands clean round having only completed 2 revolutions will have the jump noted as a 2Lz rather than the skater who underotates the triple lutz by more than 90 degrees who would have it marked as a 3Lz<

    Ant

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