Ladies short program

**i love to skate** · 10-16-2009, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by skatingbc

Although she landed all of her jumps, I thought all of her jumps had one issue or another. Her mulekick is just disgraceful. She slowed considerably going into her loop and the landing edge wasn't long and gliding, but slow and it circled too much. She is still slow as molasses going into that darn double axel. So, although she landed all of her jumps, I could see her getting 0 GOE or -GOE on all of them. I thought she looked faster as well, but still not nearly as fast as she should be. I love Caroline and I want her to do well, but I think she needs to seriously correct her technique before she can really compete with the upper echelon.

Very good post. I completely agree! I didn't see any visible improvements or even any slight attempts at improving her technique. People have been talking about her technique for years and still nothing is being done about it. Makes me wonder about her willingness to try and fix these problems. I am concerned about what her coaches are thinking as well; they are doing more harm than good for her.

**Tinymavy15** · 10-16-2009, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by jenaj

Maybe I'm missing something, but why does Mao need a 3A in the SP, if she has a 3-3? Why not just match Yu Na, jump for jump?

Because YU-na has a perfect Lutz and Mao does not. If she is lucky she gets a ! sometimes it is as bad as a "e." Mao does not feel comfortable with the lutz after she has been trying not to flutz. If Mao gets a -2 on the lutz and Yu-na gets a +2 then that is 4 points right there. Not to mention that her 3/3 is downgraded often.

**cornell08** · 10-16-2009, 04:08 PM

...so Caroline ought to score what she used to score, when she landed everything. Am I the only one who sees this glitch in logic? I'm not saying she's improved by much at all, only saying for the same if not worse performance she's gotten better scores.

**ehdtkqorl123** · 10-16-2009, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by jenaj

Maybe I'm missing something, but why does Mao need a 3A in the SP, if she has a 3-3? Why not just match Yu Na, jump for jump? If Mao has a problem on the lutz, do a flip. Mao's spirals, spins and footwork are, IMO, better than Yu Na's.
She can compete, but not with missed triple axels.

To me, it seems like 3A is Mao's lottery jump - too bad for her that she doesn't win the jackpot often.

**jenaj** · 10-16-2009, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Tinymavy15

Because YU-na has a perfect Lutz and Mao does not. If she is lucky she gets a ! sometimes it is as bad as a "e." Mao does not feel comfortable with the lutz after she has been trying not to flutz. If Mao gets a -2 on the lutz and Yu-na gets a +2 then that is 4 points right there. Not to mention that her 3/3 is downgraded often.

Then why doesn't she do a 3F-3T? Isn't that her usual 3-3? She doesn't have to do a lutz in the short program, does she? And even if she does, she can do it as her solo jump. Mao needs to forget about the 3A in the short program until she can land it consistently. What did Frank Carroll tell Michelle about consistency--80? 90? before it goes into the program?

**museksk8r** · 10-16-2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by jenaj

Then why doesn't she do a 3F-3T? Isn't that her usual 3-3? She doesn't have to do a lutz in the short program, does she? And even if she does, she can do it as her solo jump. Mao needs to forget about the 3A in the short program until she can land it consistently. What did Frank Carroll tell Michelle about consistency--80? 90? before it goes into the program?

I think Mao should try 3flip+3toe, 3loop, and 2Axel for the SP. The 3flip+3loop and the 3Axel have far too great a chance of being downgraded. She could put some super difficult entrance into the 3loop as well as a difficult exit to boost the GOE potential as well as for the 2Axel. There are so many ways for the skaters to gain extra points. They need to maximize those transitions!

**fairly4** · 10-16-2009, 04:48 PM

i will always state THAT THE USFSA And ICE NETWORK Doesn't LIKE Caroline Zhang--see icenetwork. stating gilles on.74 out of 3rd. and nothing about how close caroline zhang is from third-
also that gilles is with what his face--name as a coach--they perfer white american coaches. to me --that the usfsa doesn't want caroline zhang up there and will do everything in power behind the scenes to keep her down--including alexi gilles fans with the mule kick--not realizing GILLES SkATES LIKE A JUNIOR SKATER_ -has nothing do it-except she is white.no artistry no-nothing.
zhang might have skated a bit slow--aslo no triple triple, maybe the score could have been higher ; maybe gilles got a bit higher based on a smidge higher in jumps not much. there is NO DIFFERENCE BETSWEEN GILLEs and Zhang in scoring -to pcs Caroline got higher pcs. she skated solid--gilles not so sure. (overmarked a bit).
sorry about being rude-but it seems caroline zhang gets rooked everytime, andwant to make sure she isn't the one they want up there by keeping her scores too low.

**skatingbc** · 10-16-2009, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by cornell08

I agree, but the issue is that this was a better short program performance than most she's done in the near past and yet she was scored lower. This is an issue of inconsistency in her scores. She might still be slow and mulekick and go slow into the axel but the point is she's improved, if only a little. This was a better performance than any of her short programs last year (except perhaps World Team Trophy) and yet her score does not reflect this.

Her previous scores are irrelevant to this competition. The judges are marking what they see in front of them. I see your point, but the judges don't hand out A's for effort. Perhaps she has tried to work on it and perhaps she has improved her speed, but has anything else improved? I don't really think so.

On the other hand, maybe she got zero for an illegal spin or something?

**fairly4** · 10-16-2009, 04:50 PM

also how low--maybe she should have got a 58. or low 59.
with all the brouhaha about sasha--getting special treatment. they want to make sure caroline doesn't get the marks to make room for SASHA and rachel.
see even junior skaters beat carolina out--not realizing Kira was OVermarked in her short programs.

**demarinis5** · 10-16-2009, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by cornell08

I agree, but the issue is that this was a better short program performance than most she's done in the near past and yet she was scored lower. This is an issue of inconsistency in her scores. She might still be slow and mulekick and go slow into the axel but the point is she's improved, if only a little. This was a better performance than any of her short programs last year (except perhaps World Team Trophy) and yet her score does not reflect this.

Maybe the judges were stricter today. But I do agree about her score I thought she would score higher for that program. I did not think her SP was that bad at all, I liked it.

**R.D.** · 10-16-2009, 04:54 PM

I expected closer to 60 for Zhang. Oh well, now it's a battle for silver, one which I'm farily convinced Asada will win. But if she slips up on both 3A's the door might be opened for someone else.

**wonderlen3000** · 10-16-2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by *Sniper*

I think Mao's 3F-3L sometimes gets downgraded on the loop, doesn't it?
Since she doesn't have the lutz, what jump can she do as a solo?
Maybe 3A and 2A again?

I have no idea if that's plausible, but yeah, she's gotta do something.

I think Mao should play it safe, just do a 3F+2Lo, when she is not up against Yuna. IF Joannie can score 68+ with no triple-triple, I'm sure she can it's more than enough to beat most skaters, except Yuna. Then do the 3+3 at the GPF and world/Olmypics. I mean it's great for a skater to push the limit, but you got to draw a line some where.

**SerpentineSteps** · 10-16-2009, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by fairly4

i will always state THAT THE USFSA And ICE NETWORK Doesn't LIKE Caroline Zhang--see icenetwork. stating gilles on.74 out of 3rd. and nothing about how close caroline zhang is from third-
also that gilles is with what his face--name as a coach--they perfer white american coaches. to me --that the usfsa doesn't want caroline zhang up there and will do everything in power behind the scenes to keep her down--including alexi gilles fans with the mule kick--not realizing GILLES SkATES LIKE A JUNIOR SKATER_ -has nothing do it-except she is white.no artistry no-nothing.
zhang might have skated a bit slow--aslo no triple triple, maybe the score could have been higher ; maybe gilles got a bit higher based on a smidge higher in jumps not much. there is NO DIFFERENCE BETSWEEN GILLEs and Zhang in scoring -to pcs Caroline got higher pcs. she skated solid--gilles not so sure. (overmarked a bit).
sorry about being rude-but it seems caroline zhang gets rooked everytime, andwant to make sure she isn't the one they want up there by keeping her scores too low.

I think it's a stretch to say that the fact that Icenetwork didn't mention Caroline in 4th is a sign of racism, ESPECIALLY considering that it's standard protocol to limit competition summaries to the top 3 (go look at ISU summaries, for example). In addition, while I dismiss most conspiracy theories, I even more strongly doubt that the USFS would make efforts to keep one of their own skaters down just so that a white skater can do well.

As an Asian person myself, it's a bit disconcerting that your paranoia of racism is, in effect, making your comments vaguely "reverse-racist" in their own right.