Ladies LP

[Bennett]

Ptolemy, that's a scary thought you've brought up about ladies' coaching in Japan. I don't know whether this fact is related to your idea, but interestingly, two of the only "wrapped leg" jumpers to become world or GP medalists have come from Japan: Nakano and the great Midori Ito. (The only other world-class skater with that fault that I recall was one of the Claudias from West Germany: I think it was Claudia Kristofics-Binder.) Maybe it's not a coincidence that those three Japanese ladies, Ito, Nakano, and Asada, all have a triple axel. This seems to reinforce your theory that the Japanese skating program looks for ladies with natural jumping talent, and that some (not all) of their coaches don't force them into the prescribed form. If your idea is correct, Ptolemy, it doesn't bode well for Mao. That's really too bad, because she's phenomenal and it would be nice to have her among the contenders for the OGM.
.

Actually Yukari, Midori, and Mao, phenomenal 3A jumpers with some unconventional techniques, were all coached by Machiko Yamada. Another student, Mie Onda, also landed 3A (I just don't know if she had any technical issues though). Kanako Murakami, a fantastic shining junior star, also is coached by Machiko. She is an absolutely fantastic performer and wonderful jumper, but flutzes and has mule kick, too.

[herios]

That's not necessarily true. People also like to see an absolutely dominant person crushes everyone else and keeps setting new records and making history.
That's why people went crazy when Phelps dominated the field and got 8 gold medals.
The only difference I see here is that Yuna is non-American.

You can't really expect Yuna to underperform for the sake of competition being nailbiting. It's up to other competitors to deliver the goods and catch up. Here they failed.

I agree with you. This is a sport not a thriller show!, If I need drama, i will go to the theatre. Let Yu-Na blow away the competition if she is that good, The rest have to stand up and challenge her if they can.

[skate4ever]

That's not necessarily true. People also like to see an absolutely dominant person crushes everyone else and keeps setting new records and making history.
That's why people went crazy when Phelps dominated the field and got 8 gold medals.

But don't you think the sport of swimming would have received even higher level of attention if there was another swimmer just as good as Phelps? Yeah, Phelps is good and he was expected to win lots of gold medals and he did... But that was so predictable.

Usain Bolt is quite popular, isn't he?

Ditto with Usain Bolt. I'm sure if Tyson Gay or Asafa Powell finds a way to beat Bolt once in a while, the crowd will become much more involved.

You can't really expect Yuna to underperform for the sake of competition being nailbiting. It's up to other competitors to deliver the goods and catch up. Here they failed.

Who said anything about expecting Yuna to underperform to enhance the level of excitement? All I'm saying is that although there wasn't much competition for the first place at this year's TEB, there can be plenty towards the end of the season.

[herios]

But don't you think the sport of swimming would have received even higher level of attention if there was another swimmer just as good as Phelps? Yeah, Phelps is good and he was expected to win lots of gold medals and he did... But that was so predictable.



Ditto with Usain Bolt. I'm sure if Tyson Gay or Asafa Powell finds a way to beat Bolt once in a while, the crowd will become much more involved.



Who said anything about expecting Yuna to underperform to enhance the level of excitement? All I'm saying is that although there wasn't much competition for the first place at this year's TEB, there can be plenty towards the end of the season.

For those who want excitement, there still could be in the quest for the silver and bronze, or in the other disciplines. The men's title for example will be extremely disputed.

[skate4ever]

For those who want excitement, there still could be in the quest for the silver and bronze, or in the other disciplines. The men's title for example will be extremely disputed.

So are you saying that Yuna virtually has the OGM in her pocket already? I'm a big fan of hers and I think she's good, but not that good.

[gourry]

So are you saying that Yuna virtually has the OGM in her pocket already? I'm a big fan of hers and I think she's good, but not that good.

I don't think herios meant Olympic games.(Of course, I'm not psychic though) In my case, this TEB, I was really thrilled about the battle for silver. Could it be Yukari? Is Carolina going to bounce back strong? Go, Caroline, you can aim for bronze! ....Something like this.
And FYI, I'm not counting anybody out yet! It's just the beginning of season.

[skate4ever]

I'm not counting anybody out yet! It's just the beginning of season.

Exactly my point. And I'm not expecting Yuna to be completely dominant throughout the season just based on what we saw for the past two days. I think other skaters will make her work hard to achieve her goal, thereby allowing themselves decent chances at the OGM, too.

[harmy18]

Um, actually that is not true. If you check the protocols, you'll see she gets many many positive GOEs on her jumps. IIRC, she got even more GOE on her 2A than Yuna and Mao at last worlds. (Not 100% sure about Mao, maybe they tied? but it's true in Yuna's case.) It was my impression that maybe Joannie is the second best GOE getter on jumps.

Are we talking about the same event the highest of Joannie's 2A was +1.6, while Yuna's was +1.8 in LA......... I'm not going to do any comparisions, I just wanna say Joannie's jumps may have potential to be higher.........

The only difference I see here is that Yuna is non-American.

Her coach and her team are not only Americans, but also powerful ppl.....It would be better if she's American

[Tonichelle]

Her coach and her team are not only Americans, but also powerful ppl.....It would be better if she's American

actually her coach, Brian Orser, is Canadian... as is the rest of her team. Big difference there.

[gourry]

Are we talking about the same event the highest of Joannie's 2A was +1.6, while Yuna's was +1.8 in LA......... I'm not going to do any comparisions, I just wanna say Joannie's jumps may have potential to be higher.........

Really? Are you sure? I'll try to check the protocols later but for now let's just take a look at this.

This is jump stats from last season compiled by poorScorer.

POINT ( max ) | GOE ( max ) | Name
6.359 ( 11.50 ) | 0.643 ( 2.0 ) | Yu-Na KIM
5.796 ( 9.80 ) | 0.408 ( 2.0 ) | Joannie ROCHETTE
5.513 ( 11.30 ) | 0.192 ( 2.0 ) | Mao ASADA
5.404 ( 9.73 ) | -0.350 ( 0.8 ) | Rachael FLATT
5.399 ( 11.80 ) | -0.007 ( 1.4 ) | Miki ANDO
5.258 ( 8.63 ) | -0.250 ( 1.2 ) | Alena LEONOVA
5.110 ( 8.20 ) | -0.307 ( 0.8 ) | Akiko SUZUKI
5.007 ( 8.30 ) | 0.144 ( 1.4 ) | Fumie SUGURI
4.945 ( 9.50 ) | -0.505 ( 0.2 ) | Caroline ZHANG
4.894 ( 9.60 ) | 0.237 ( 1.6 ) | Laura LEPISTO
4.729 ( 8.50 ) | -0.308 ( 1.0 ) | Nina PETUSHKOVA
4.647 ( 8.28 ) | -0.057 ( 1.0 ) | Yukari NAKANO
4.622 ( 8.60 ) | -0.434 ( 1.0 ) | Amelie LACOSTE
4.570 ( 11.30 ) | -0.477 ( 1.8 ) | Carolina KOSTNER
4.560 ( 8.50 ) | -0.364 ( 1.0 ) | Susanna POYKIO
4.512 ( 7.35 ) | -0.368 ( 1.0 ) | Ashley WAGNER
4.486 ( 7.00 ) | 0.300 ( 1.0 ) | Ivana REITMAYEROVA
4.469 ( 7.50 ) | -0.460 ( 1.0 ) | Candice DIDIER
4.318 ( 7.26 ) | -0.145 ( 1.0 ) | Jenna MCCORKELL
4.289 ( 8.30 ) | -0.538 ( 1.0 ) | Sarah MEIER
4.121 ( 6.80 ) | -0.180 ( 0.8 ) | Anna JURKIEWICZ
4.081 ( 7.88 ) | -0.317 ( 1.2 ) | Cynthia PHANEUF
4.042 ( 8.23 ) | -0.433 ( 1.0 ) | Alissa CZISNY
4.029 ( 9.00 ) | -0.525 ( 1.0 ) | Elena GLEBOVA
3.986 ( 7.30 ) | -0.385 ( 0.6 ) | Yan LIU
3.801 ( 6.80 ) | -0.712 ( 0.6 ) | Katarina GERBOLDT
3.794 ( 6.27 ) | -0.911 ( 0.8 ) | Beatrisa LIANG
3.762 ( 8.90 ) | -0.359 ( 0.0 ) | Mira LEUNG
3.720 ( 6.93 ) | -0.757 ( 0.6 ) | Cheltzie LEE
3.663 ( 6.80 ) | -0.564 ( 0.6 ) | Katrina HACKER
3.643 ( 6.71 ) | -0.120 ( 1.2 ) | Nana TAKEDA
3.642 ( 5.72 ) | -0.706 ( 0.0 ) | Hyeon-Jung KIM
3.530 ( 9.00 ) | -0.575 ( 1.6 ) | Elene GEDEVANISHVILI
3.508 ( 8.30 ) | -0.394 ( 0.8 ) | Binshu XU
3.498 ( 7.00 ) | -0.773 ( 0.4 ) | Na-Young KIM
3.464 ( 6.80 ) | -0.658 ( 0.0 ) | Gwendoline DIDIER
3.457 ( 6.20 ) | -0.510 ( 0.2 ) | Francesca RIO
3.441 ( 8.70 ) | -0.508 ( 0.4 ) | Viktoria HELGESSON
3.417 ( 6.40 ) | -0.318 ( 0.8 ) | Kiira KORPI
3.409 ( 7.30 ) | -0.461 ( 0.8 ) | Kimmie MEISSNER
3.401 ( 6.70 ) | -0.292 ( 0.4 ) | Teodora POSTIC
3.399 ( 9.80 ) | -0.259 ( 1.0 ) | Julia SEBESTYEN
3.341 ( 5.80 ) | -0.590 ( 0.8 ) | Anastasia GIMAZETDINOVA
3.338 ( 5.80 ) | -0.551 ( 0.0 ) | Nella SIMAOVA
3.318 ( 8.00 ) | -0.644 ( 1.2 ) | Annette DYTRT
3.286 ( 5.60 ) | -0.320 ( 0.4 ) | Karly ROBERTSON
3.262 ( 5.00 ) | -1.020 ( 0.0 ) | Manouk GIJSMAN
3.005 ( 7.70 ) | -0.602 ( 0.4 ) | Irina MOVCHAN
2.880 ( 6.38 ) | -0.743 ( 0.8 ) | Tugba KARADEMIR
2.802 ( 6.30 ) | -0.545 ( 1.4 ) | Kerstin FRANK
2.736 ( 5.80 ) | -0.635 ( 0.2 ) | Ana Cecilia CANTU
2.699 ( 6.10 ) | -0.337 ( 0.8 ) | Chaochih LIU
2.691 ( 7.30 ) | -0.505 ( 1.0 ) | Mirai NAGASU
2.616 ( 7.80 ) | -0.734 ( 0.4 ) | Emily HUGHES
2.586 ( 5.63 ) | -1.260 ( 0.2 ) | Myriane SAMSON
2.546 ( 3.87 ) | -0.372 ( 0.0 ) | Tina WANG
2.480 ( 5.90 ) | -0.843 ( 0.4 ) | Sonia LAFUENTE
2.297 ( 5.70 ) | -0.595 ( 0.4 ) | Isabelle PIEMAN
2.273 ( 5.60 ) | -0.860 ( 0.8 ) | Jenni VAHAMAA
1.875 ( 4.71 ) | -0.685 ( 0.0 ) | Yueren WANG
1.835 ( 6.00 ) | -0.544 ( 0.2 ) | Stefania BERTON
1.794 ( 4.80 ) | -0.328 ( 0.0 ) | Loretta HAMUI
1.652 ( 6.10 ) | -0.398 ( 0.0 ) | Michele CANTU
1.556 ( 5.60 ) | -0.532 ( 0.0 ) | Tamami ONO
1.484 ( 4.10 ) | -0.931 ( 0.6 ) | Gracielle Jeanne TAN

Indeed, Joannie is an excellent jumper and she is getting rewarded.

Her coach and her team are not only Americans, but also powerful ppl.....It would be better if she's American

As for Brian Orser... He is Canadian. Of course, if you were referring to North American, then...

[skate4ever]

Just out of curiosity, in Kwan's era, were figure skating fans this enthusiastic about the rivalry like the one between Yu-Na and Mao? Not that I am making any comparison between Kwan and Yu-Na.

We will never know because there were not many of us in the cyberspace back then. But if the Internet had been as prevalent as it is today, I'm sure there would have been many interesting comments about Michelle and Irina on the forums.

[Tonichelle]

As for Brian Orser... He is Canadian. Of course, if you were referring to North American, then...

even there, I don't know that Brian or his people have as much pull as the poster suggested. Their team is good but fairly new compared to, say, Frank Carrol...

shoot, Robin Wagner championed Sarah Hughes and she hasn't had much pull in her other skaters

We will never know because there were not many of us in the cyberspace back then. But if the Internet had been as prevalent as it is today, I'm sure there would have been many interesting comments about Michelle and Irina on the forums.

the MK / Tara wars were bad enough... fans seemed to mature by the time Irina became MK's main rival... but yes there were (and still are) rabid discussion on Michelle and the skater of the year who dared challenge her.

[*Sniper*]

Just out of curiosity, in Kwan's era, were figure skating fans this enthusiastic about the rivalry like the one between Yu-Na and Mao? Not that I am making any comparison between Kwan and Yu-Na.

Can some knowledgeable fan answer this question?
I would love to know, too.

My guess is that Michelle's fanbase (including myself) probably outnumbered the other party by a wide margin, so it was no contest.
---------------------------

EDIT: Oh, there have been responses already!

[ks777]

Actually Yukari, Midori, and Mao, phenomenal 3A jumpers with some unconventional techniques, were all coached by Machiko Yamada. Another student, Mie Onda, also landed 3A (I just don't know if she had any technical issues though). Kanako Murakami, a fantastic shining junior star, also is coached by Machiko. She is an absolutely fantastic performer and wonderful jumper, but flutzes and has mule kick, too.

Mie Onda? You mean Yoshie Onda? She did land one but it was not ratified.
Yoshie was a high jumper but her technique wasn't all the great.

[Bennett]

Mie Onda? You mean Yoshie Onda? She did land one but it was not ratified.
Yoshie was a high jumper but her technique wasn't all the great.

Oh, thanks. Yeah, that was her. I forgot how to pronounce her first name.