Ladies LP

[Medusa]

I loved Kim's footwork towards the end of the program, that was excellent, so lovely. Perfectly to the music. Really impressive. There weren't any excessive movements à la Lysacek, Plushenko or even Asada - it simply suited the music amazingly well, so elegant, no awkwardness. Loved it.

I am still miffed about the 5 Triples, but what really bothered me that her skipping the Triple Flip disrupted the program as much as a fall would have. She really just stood there for the seconds the jump would have taken. That was a rather glaring mistake - and should be considered in the marks.

[bmelanie]

I am still miffed about the 5 Triples, but what really bothered me that her skipping the Triple Flip disrupted the program as much as a fall would have. She really just stood there for the seconds the jump would have taken. That was a rather glaring mistake - and should be considered in the marks.

How did it disrupt the program (as much as a fall would have)? You never know how bad a fall may be - remember Yukari and her popped arm at the Japan Open - and if Yuna felt that something wasn't quite right for the jump then it was a good decision on her part to not do it. Also, falls often cause the skaters to finish after the music, it disrupts the timing of the entire program, while Yuna simply went on and followed the music.

[Moxy]

Hi all - my first post here, although I've been following the forum for a while...

Just wanted to make a quick comment re: the...uh..."sunflower incident" (yikes)

Please let's not take this to ridiculous heights. Kim Yu-Na herself clarified in an interview today:
"I think there was a cavity on the ice - the blade caught it as I went into the three-turn, speeding it up. I lost the timing, so gave up on the jump because I felt that I would probably fall."
And she added:
"It was my mistake, and I don't want to make any excuses. I don't like to place blame."

If you've ever gone skiing or skating (mostly the former for me, not much good at the latter unfortunately), you've probably experienced what she's talking about - catching on a pit on the snow/ice, losing control and falling. It happens. It's a freak accident, no one's fault really. (That said, of course it is important to securely wrap any gifts/flowers to be thrown onto the ice. Yukari was momentarily disrupted because the flower boy/girl/(??) had to clean up the ice, and I can imagine that if I were a skater getting ready to do my free program, I would not appreciate the distraction and the delay.)

Hopefully that clears it up. I think Yu-Na feels uncomfortable about all these wild speculations, as well -- so if you really care about her, please do her a favor and don't go about blowing things out of proportion. I understand that people sometimes want to make excuses for those they care about - but in this case, Yu-Na clearly doesn't want to do that, so let's respect her wishes.

That's all! Happy forum-ing! (I will now revert to my quiescent forum-browsing...)

[Daniel5555]

I'm really getting more and more surprised as I come in this topic.
Now we're talking about Michelle Kwan... While it's questionless that she is a legendary skater, she is not the only one who carried out that skating popularity. For the instance, if you ask a regular person in Russia who is Michelle Kwan, no one will remember her, because instead of her they had Irina Slutskaya, as the legendary and best skater for the same time.
Just for being American, Michelle carried out the popularity that others could not and still can not. I wonder how it would be if she was a Chinese skater and how she would be in that case.

But that's not the point. What happens now is the lack of promotion. When Michelle and Sasha left, the channels lost their interest in the sport because there was no other American skaters who could be the same stars as those. That's why there is no interesting in showing figure skating and that's why most of us are forced to watch Asian channels.

kyla2

I sure hope some of you can get a Korean t.v. station in 2 years.

I can get it right now, you know...

Take a look at the stadiums when Yu Na Kim and Mao skate, they aren't even near full, this is internationally. Lot's of empty seats. There is a reason for that. Yes, Yu Na is a star in Korea and Mao in Japan but that's pretty much it. They don't connect with audiences internationally and Michelle did.

Orly?
Somehow both Mao and Yuna got a lot of fans, including some from Spain and Italy. And I, honestly, couldn't care less for skating when Michelle and Slutskaya were around. But not because of them, it was because of me. Watching skating is not the same as watching soccer. It's kind of sport that you have to understand. It's not simple, the competitions are long and it lacks direct confrontation. The biggest part of the audience won't like it just because it is the way it is.

Michelle is gone, and I am ranting (rage, rage against the dying of the light). Yu Na Kim's jumps are textbook, but I find her music and choreography lackluster. I feel like I am watching the same program again and again.

Because you want it to be that way. It's a two way road. While people like me get all their mind excited by her programs others just don't feel it. But that means that this program is actually working on someone, so maybe it's not the program's fault in the first place.

I'm not Asian, nor American, I'm from Spain and from the side I can clearly see what happens. Love it or hate it, but Mao and Yuna already made history. If figure skating is no longer popular in USA, well, let Japan and Korea be the next centres of this sport. I can't care less about that. But the sad thing is that people will always remain their minds close, some to the whole figure skating, others to the certain skaters.

[ehdtkqorl123]

I'm not Asian, nor American, I'm from Spain and from the side I can clearly see what happens. Love it or hate it, but Mao and Yuna already made history. If figure skating is no longer popular in USA, well, let Japan and Korea be the next centres of this sport. I can't care less about that. But the sad thing is that people will always remain their minds close, some to the whole figure skating, others to the certain skaters.

Let's say we can use a time machine to bring young Michelle back to today and let her skate disguising her face so that nobody can recognize her. I am sure some MK fans will still say, she is good but she can't even get close to our Michelle.

[janetfan]

Let's say we can use a time machine to bring young Michelle back to today and let her skate disguising her face so that nobody can recognize her. I am sure some MK fans will still say, she is good but she can't even get close to our Michelle.

That's an interesting observation and you might be right.

After watching USA Ladies for the past few seasons I do think almost any new girl that came along, consistently landing 7 triples in an era when the best in the world are landing 4-5 would win over American skating fans pretty quickly.

But there was something special about Michelle - just as there is something special about Yuna and Mao.

And Michelle fans might consider that she seems to be a pretty big fan of Yuna.
And who can blame her?

[kyla2]

Oh Evangeline, yes I can say that and yes I did. Daniel, I am glad you are a happy camper in Spain and you are enjoying figure skating as it currently exists, but it is a niche sport in decline in both the United States and in Europe. The quality of skating and the quality of the programs are in decline. Viewership has tanked. It is a sport in trouble. Daniel, most of us don't get Korean t.v. stations (or want to for that matter). Since you don't live in the U.S. it's kind of a moot point from your persepctive don't you think?

[Tigger]

O.k. for those of you that lack historical perspective and don't see the difference in the sport since Michelle skated, I can only assume that you didn't watch figure skating then or you were visually challenged.

Kyla, do you think there's a chance you could make your points in a less offensive and arrogant manner?

I am visually impaired thanks to a degenerative eye disease and I found the quoted material up there more than a tad insulting. We get it. You've more than made your point about what you think. There was a better and less insulting manner to do it though.

[Mathman]

Welcome, Macemace1980 and Moxy. Thanks for joining in. Post often, post long.

[demarinis5]

OK How did the Kween get into this thread. I must have missed something. I will have to go back and review.

[skatingbc]

Poor Mao & the other ladies, there's no way they can win, Yuna only has to skate her SP like she did yesterday & she's already won, LP doesn't matter. In this new system, once you've built a substantial lead in the SP, LP no longer matters.

I think S/S proved that that is not entirely true.

[skatingbc]

Neither of them Michelle. Neither of them Sasha, Irina, or Tara.

Why do Mao or Yuna need to be Sasha, Irina, Tara or Michelle? I think they are doing a pretty good job being Mao and Yuna. They both are unique and bring their own personalities and strengths to the ice.

[evangeline]

Oh Evangeline, yes I can say that and yes I did. Daniel, I am glad you are a happy camper in Spain and you are enjoying figure skating as it currently exists, but it is a niche sport in decline in both the United States and in Europe. The quality of skating and the quality of the programs are in decline. Viewership has tanked. It is a sport in trouble. Daniel, most of us don't get Korean t.v. stations (or want to for that matter). Since you don't live in the U.S. it's kind of a moot point from your persepctive don't you think?

Did you just call Lambiel's Poeta and Yu-Na's Danse Macabre "unmemorable programs with monotone, uninspiring music and flailing-arms choreography"?



Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

But you have to realize that this only illustrates the subjectivity of this whole thing. You may think that all skaters today have horrible programs, but can't you argue that the same can be said of Michelle's programs? I personally love many of Michelle's programs, but I'm sure there's some people who think they are unmemorable programs with monotone, uninspiring music and flailing-arms choreography especially if you look at her programs after 2002 and are instead truly touched by Yu-Na's and Mao's programs. The same can be said for Sasha, Irina and Tara.

Out of curiosity, if you think Lambiel's Poeta and Yu-Na's Danse Macabre are that mediocre, can you give specific examples of programs you think are very good?

[Daniel5555]

kyla2
I know that it's in decline. But it's in decline in some places, in others it's rising. The quality of programs is a very subjective thing. I've asked different people about this and they said that in their opinion the difficulty of elements and overall quality increased. I think that the programs changed and it's really difficult to perform them nowadays.

The same with the connection with audience. I perfectly understand that is very hard to connect with a skater you don't really know and don't follow. But I think you don't give them a chance either.

Since you don't live in the U.S. it's kind of a moot point from your persepctive don't you think?

Maybe, but sometimes you can see better from the outside. It's just impossible that skaters with no connection and with plain programs would achieve such a big popularity, one in a country with a lot of skating history like Japan and other in a country with almost no skating history. It's impossible.
And at the same time there are a bunch of experts who are praising them. For example, Tarasova clearly thinks that Mao is one the best skaters of all time, which I won't question here. Michelle Kwan who is a legendary skater, really likes Yuna Kim. It would be too long to name all commentators, experts and coaches who said very good things about them. Even including people like Phillip Hersh. Don't you think if they really were so bad, all those people would notice it as well?

[gourry]

Wow. For a moment I thought I'm in the wrong thread. This sure looks like a different thread from what I left last night.

Just wanted to make a quick comment re: the...uh..."sunflower incident" (yikes)

Please let's not take this to ridiculous heights. Kim Yu-Na herself clarified in an interview today:
"I think there was a cavity on the ice - the blade caught it as I went into the three-turn, speeding it up. I lost the timing, so gave up on the jump because I felt that I would probably fall."
And she added:
"It was my mistake, and I don't want to make any excuses. I don't like to place blame."

If you've ever gone skiing or skating (mostly the former for me, not much good at the latter unfortunately), you've probably experienced what she's talking about - catching on a pit on the snow/ice, losing control and falling. It happens. It's a freak accident, no one's fault really. (That said, of course it is important to securely wrap any gifts/flowers to be thrown onto the ice. Yukari was momentarily disrupted because the flower boy/girl/(??) had to clean up the ice, and I can imagine that if I were a skater getting ready to do my free program, I would not appreciate the distraction and the delay.)

That's what I guessed. When you skate last, the ice surface can't be good. Holes here and there, fallen beads, sometimes costume parts, furs from stuffed animals
But I do think one thing is very clear. WRAP YOUR FLOWERS.

I have to confess I was really surprised when I first saw the sunflowers that they even let the person bring them inside the arena.
I was at SA last year and the person wouldn't allow my rose from the enterance of the arena, which was wrapped properly by the way, saying flowers are not allowed because petals, leaves, thorns could fall on the ice and cause dangers.
Poor Yukari must have been distracted while she was waiting.

Anyway, Scott was gushing how Yuna was extremely smart to decide not to jump when she felt something was wrong. That was kind of funny.