Ladies LP

[demarinis5]

At least we all agree that YuNa was the clear winner at TEB. As for her scores people have been questioning judging/scoring from the beginning of time, to high, to low, outrageous PC's, ridiculously low PC's etc. It goes hand & hand with forum discussions. I take it all with a grain of salt because in the end it is what it is. Many skaters have been the subject of over scoring discussions not only YuNa.

At the end of the day the fact remains that at TEB YuNa skated 2 technically strong and artistic programs which was the complete package. No doubt she worked very, very hard to achieve her results.

[cosmos]

At least we all agree that YuNa was the clear winner at TEB. As for her scores people have been questioning judging/scoring from the beginning of time, to high, to low, outrageous PC's, ridiculously low PC's etc. It goes hand & hand with forum discussions. I take it all with a grain of salt because in the end it is what it is. Many skaters have been the subject of over scoring discussions not only YuNa.

At the end of the day the fact remains that at TEB YuNa skated 2 technically strong and artistic programs which was the complete package. No doubt she worked very, very hard to achieve her results.

Great post.

[prettykeys]

O.k. for those of you that lack historical perspective and don't see the difference in the sport since Michelle skated, I can only assume that you didn't watch figure skating then or you were visually challenged. Take a look at tapes of all Michelle's competitions, nationally and internationally, the arenas were either full or just about full.

...I have watched figure skating for 47 years and I can honestly say, the programs are predictable (thank you ISU for this unGODLY point system which ensured that) and the skaters going through the motions in order to get the points. It's a tragedy and while you all sit here offering your opinions on how wonderful everything is, the sport is going to hell in a handbasket everywhere except in two countries in Asia. I sure hope some of you can get a Korean t.v. station in 2 years.

Umm... American stars tend to do very well internationally because American culture is the most exported culture in the world, and not nearly to the same extent are cultures and other nations' sensations imported into the U.S.

I'm happy for you that you have been watching figure skating for longer than I have been alive, but my interest started with Kristi Yamaguchi (as a kindergartender) and then waned with the Kerrigan/Harding drama. When I saw Michelle Kwan I only felt like I was missing Kristi, so I lapsed out until I caught glimpses of Irina and Sasha.

I imagine if YuNa or Mao had been American, their popularity would have exploded in the U.S. and the resultant waves would have hit the international scene. It's a product of American culture, its power and exportability. I don't think it was Michelle Kwan was a star only because it was Michelle Kwan; if she were, say, a national Chinese, figure skating in the U.S. would have been magical, thriving, and swooning over her?? Oh, please. Highly doubt it.

I can still watch bits of Michelle performances and they don't really impress me. By all means, she is an extraordinary performer and had a long, consistent career, but her spirals were not like Sasha's, her athletic power was not like Irina's, her jumps were not as amazing as either YuNa or Mao's. And I am likewise unimpressed with a certain Sarah Hughes who outperformed Michelle at the last Olympics she went to. Nay, I was quite content to follow men's figure skating when Michelle was at her peak. Imagine Yagudin or Plushenko as Americans, and tell me they would not have blown up the American figure skating scene either.

[Tinymavy15]

Honestly, this is the second time I've come across someone making the ridiculous assertion that YuNa deliberately and pre-meditatedly skipped her 3flip, and it's only come from posters who are clearly prejudiced against YuNa in the first place.

I meant my comment more as a joke.

[SerpentineSteps]

I meant my comment more as a joke.

Yes, people need to chillax a bit on this board...

[Wicked]

I finally finished watching all of the ladies' LPs. I really liked Yukari. I thought her music, costume, and choreo really worked well.

[Blades of Passion]

Prettykeys, you poor thing.

Michelle had some of the best programs ever and the strongest skating skills of ANY modern female skater.

Criticizing her Spiral really makes me question what you are watching. Her blade control on that move is superior to every other woman in the history of skating.

[silverlining]

What I meant was, even the most casual skating fan, someone who watched figure skating for the first time in his/her life, after Yu-na's LP, could not have looked around the room and said "...so that's it?", unless he/she was expecting some kind of nudity.

Oh boy. That is an incredibly bold and highly subjective opinion, not a fact.
Care to back it up?
Did you take a poll?
Do you speak for the ENTIRE "casual skating fans" that watched this program?
If you do, you forgot to ask me, because I've been one of them for about 15 years.

I was looking forward to watching her skate again in SA and reevaluating my take on her LP with some useful pointers I gathered from this thread, but I feel kind of stupid and perverted after your post, so maybe I shouldn't bother.

You see, I don't have to substantiate my claim because I said,
"... could not have looked around...", which means it's not factual.
It's what's called the "subjunctive mood".
Had I said, "... did not look around...", then I would have to present you with all my raw data and survey results, etc.

Hey, sniper, this is a friendly forum and I didn't mean to offend you and sorry if I did. Nobody thinks that you were really expecting Yu-na to skate in her birthday suit.

It was just a rhetorical question because I couldn't imagine anybody saying, "so that's it?" after seeing Yu-na skate, or after anybody's performance for that matter.

And please watch Yu-na's LP when she performs in Lake Placid, it's a good program. And Sasha and Fumie and Rachel, and the rest of the bunch. They will all be skating their hearts out to please figure skating fans like yourself.

[demarinis5]

snip

Criticizing her Spiral really makes me question what you are watching. Her blade control on that move is superior to every other woman in the history of skating.

That is why I decided not to respond .

[prettykeys]

I meant my comment more as a joke.

I'm sorry! That was dumb of me. Someone genuinely made that statement and said YuNa was "complacent" and deliberately skipped the flip, which ticked me off the first time, and hearing it again (in jest) by you made me pounce you. My bad.

Prettykeys, you poor thing.

Criticizing her Spiral really makes me question what you are watching. Her blade control on that move is superior to every other woman in the history of skating.

What am I watching? I'm watching Sasha's spiral leave Michelle's in the dust. Michelle may have been a very strong, passionate skater (with almost no weaknesses), but she wasn't quite the best at any individual component. As a YuNa fan, I should be the last person to criticize Michelle's spiral, but alas, it's going to be criticized vis a vis Sasha's better positioning, higher flexibility, and more pointed foot (although Michelle does have good blade control and speed.)

No one's going to call me blind on this one:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...fax_Spiral.jpg

http://content2.myyearbook.com/zenhe...07777_res1.jpg

One is very good; the other is outstanding.

I suppose if Michelle had just the best programs ever, excuse my deprived childhood and/or brain damage. I've been able to do just about everything except realize that.

[*Sniper*]

You see, I don't have to substantiate my claim because I said,
"... could not have looked around...", which means it's not factual.
It's what's called the "subjunctive mood".
Had I said, "... did not look around...", then I would have to present you with all my raw data and survey results, etc.

Hey, sniper, this is a friendly forum and I didn't mean to offend you and sorry if I did. Nobody thinks that you were really expecting Yu-na to skate in her birthday suit.

It was just a rhetorical question because I couldn't imagine anybody saying, "so that's it?" after seeing Yu-na skate, or after anybody's performance for that matter.

And please watch Yu-na's LP when she performs in Lake Placid, it's a good program. And Sasha and Fumie and Rachel, and the rest of the bunch. They will all be skating their hearts out to please figure skating fans like yourself.

Sorry for any misunderstanding on my part.

[Daniel5555]

kyla2
Thank you for the response.
I can't agree with everything, but I won't go into discussion either.

I agree that the "art" part declined since the introduction of the new system, but well... Now it's more sport than art.

[bubbleyum]

so.... just wanted to say one thing.

i know we are all figure skating fans here on this board, some longer than others (largely due to the advantage of age perhaps )
seems to be a lot of despair over the state of figure skating, especially how the new scoring system is controlling what we get to see presented to us on the ice.

but let's also remember that these athletes are bigger ice skating fans than us keyboard warriors here. it's not like they don't love ice skating as much as we do, and don't care a whit about their programs or quality of skating.

they fell in love with it since they were little girls/boys and put in countless hours of practice, not to mention time, money, and thought in planning their programs etc etc. they are not greedy little trolls who don't care anything about skating and just want to manipulate the scoring system for their own personal gain. (whatever that might be??) same goes for the coaches, many of whom were famous elite skaters themselves... right?

[Blades of Passion]

What am I watching? I'm watching Sasha's spiral leave Michelle's in the dust. Michelle may have been a very strong, passionate skater (with almost no weaknesses), but she wasn't quite the best at any individual component. As a YuNa fan, I should be the last person to criticize Michelle's spiral, but alas, it's going to be criticized vis a vis Sasha's better positioning, higher flexibility, and more pointed foot (although Michelle does have good blade control and speed.)

Ah, but she was. Michelle's interpretation of music was, and still is, the best of any modern female skater (Lu Chen aside, although Lu Chen's body of work is smaller in quantity).

And, yes, Sasha had more flexibility and could achieve more difficult positions. However, Kwan had deeper edges and an absolutely flawless change-of-edge in her Spiral. Both of these woman had qualities in their Spirals that are the best ever.

[Kwanford Wife]

SO. MUCH. FUN.

I imagine if YuNa or Mao had been American, their popularity would have exploded in the U.S. and the resultant waves would have hit the international scene. It's a product of American culture, its power and exportability. I don't think it was Michelle Kwan was a star only because it was Michelle Kwan; if she were, say, a national Chinese, figure skating in the U.S. would have been magical, thriving, and swooning over her?? Oh, please. Highly doubt it.

I can still watch bits of Michelle performances and they don't really impress me. By all means, she is an extraordinary performer and had a long, consistent career, but her spirals were not like Sasha's, her athletic power was not like Irina's, her jumps were not as amazing as either YuNa or Mao's. And I am likewise unimpressed with a certain Sarah Hughes who outperformed Michelle at the last Olympics she went to. Nay, I was quite content to follow men's figure skating when Michelle was at her peak. Imagine Yagudin or Plushenko as Americans, and tell me they would not have blown up the American figure skating scene either.

Two quick points on this portion of our floor show...

1. Spirals are about edge control more than extention and Sasha's spirals while very pretty and awe inspiring - never hit the edge of Michelle or Irina. And I believe even Tiny would agree with that point. As for jumps - not so sure about "amazing" since "amazing" is so subjective... and MK, Irinia and Sasha all had full sets of triples.

2. Men skaters would never get the love of Ladies skaters in the US. In the US, figure skating, like gymnastics, falls into the "America's Sweetheart" marketing catergory aka Pretty girls doing amazing things. You're talking business with that comment, NOT skating. That whole pesky American culture thing that seems to bug you so much...

Prettykeys, you poor thing.

Michelle had some of the best programs ever and the strongest skating skills of ANY modern female skater.

Criticizing her Spiral really makes me question what you are watching. Her blade control on that move is superior to every other woman in the history of skating.

Blades - you're simply awesome and I love you because I love when smart people explain smart things.

That is why I decided not to respond .

Demarinis - you are very mature and I hope to follow your example one day (hopefully BEFORE I'm banned...and with this level of drama so early in the season, its looking doubtful)

kyla2
Thank you for the response.
I can't agree with everything, but I won't go into discussion either.

I agree that the "art" part declined since the introduction of the new system, but well... Now it's more sport than art.

What was it before? Ice Capades? As for the "now its more sport" specificially - you can really tell the difference because the skating is so technically superior than before... from the full sets of jumps to the clean execution to the excellent technique of the top contenders to the overall quality of skating...

Listen, I done fighting the CoP system is detrimental to skating argument - but to say that what we're watching is more like a REAL sport is crazy. Why is it so hard to admit that the quality of skating is suffering because the emphasis has moved away from to perfection to rack 'em up? Gymnastics went through a major shift in technical requirements and the athletes rose to the challenge. Why not skating?

What am I watching? I'm watching Sasha's spiral leave Michelle's in the dust. Michelle may have been a very strong, passionate skater (with almost no weaknesses), but she wasn't quite the best at any individual component. As a YuNa fan, I should be the last person to criticize Michelle's spiral, but alas, it's going to be criticized vis a vis Sasha's better positioning, higher flexibility, and more pointed foot (although Michelle does have good blade control and speed.)

No one's going to call me blind on this one:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...fax_Spiral.jpg

http://content2.myyearbook.com/zenhe...07777_res1.jpg

One is very good; the other is outstanding.

I suppose if Michelle had just the best programs ever, excuse my deprived childhood and/or brain damage. I've been able to do just about everything except realize that.

You are right: Sasha's spiral was very good - she has excellent posture and pointed toes. Beautiful! Michelle's on the other hand - OMG!. Control, speed, inside edge to outside edge on one takeoff. Truly the iconic move of skating. OUTSTANDING!

And don't worry... if the largest proof we have of your deprived childhood and resultant brain damage is the misconception that Michelle Kwan isn't the GREATEST. OF. ALL. TIME. no worries... we here at GS are more than happy to assist you in correcting that problem.

Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HldRjxM0VKU

Oh and by the way ~ Welcome to Golden Skate. Post Long. Post Often. And don't pick fights. (Toni doesn't like it)