Ladies LP

[skate4ever]

Let's look at the larger perspective.

I think almost everyone agrees that Yuna was the best skater of the competition and she won.

So what if she was a little overscored? Are we going to discredit all the judges because of that? Remember that she lost to Mao on her home ice in last year's GPF. Judges can't please everybody with every score so we should be happy that the best skater walked away with a gold medal and let's hope that the same thing happens at every event including the Olympics.

Trust me, by the time of GPF in Tokyo, Mao, Miki and Joannie are going to make things interesting. Yuna doesn't have OGM in her bag as much as I would like for her to win.

[harmy18]

What are you talking about??? When I said "Must I post," I didn't mean that "I posted it," but I meant it as that people shouldn't bicker over these skaters about their rotations in such disrespectful manners. I really think that when people say Yuna is underrotated, then there are also many other skaters who underrotate even more and still receive full credits. That's all. You don't have to make it sound like there's a huge conspiracy behind these scores, which I think is completely preposterous. And if you think her jumps are not that good or often underrorated, then I can certainly tell you that your favorite skater, who I think it is, definitely does not jump better.

Sorry for misunderstood your original words, coz it sounded like you were so familiar with that kind of thing......

I DON'T think Yuna's jumps were often underrotated, actually none of her jumps had ever been underrotated by judges except those she failed.

I have no doubt about how your feelings towards other skaters, since you are so supportive for Yuna, how can you credit others jumps without bias......

[R.D.]

I guess the one equalizer could possibly be that Kim peaks early, before Vancouver and lets the pressure get to her.

[zartian]

I want all skaters to deliver their performances to their full potential. These are my humble tips:

For Mao: I think Mao should leave TT. It seems that their combination is bad for both of them. Mao should find a coach who understands her strengths and could correct her jump problems better. Tatiana should find a pupil who understands and could deliver her artisty better. I have always been wondering what would have happened if Mao went to Orser and Yu-Na to Tarasova.

For Yuna: As always, she showed us a beatiful performance. The choreography itself is nice.. but, as the majority of the people here say, the LP music itself has a little bit of the boring side. With a different music, she would have shown us a more impressive, more beautiful performance! If she does not just wish to get a OGM but also to be remembered forever with unforgettable performance, I wish her to change her music. I found that her Moonlight Sonata in a show was very impressive. Then we will have a battle of Moonlight Sonata in Olympics, which will be forever mentioned .

[bmelanie]

I like Yu-na's SP a lot more than her free as well. But her "Danse Macabre" was just a total masterpiece. I guess I'm old skool & feel that her Bond girl is just too light for the Olympics. I'm not saying that everything has to be deep & classical, but I dunno...Yu-na's programs for this season have sort of have been a let down for me. And dare I say it, her LP was overscored. I thought Mao was ovescored a couple of season's back when she didn't attempt one of her jump element & I apply that same rubric to Yu-na's program today. GOEs shouldn't hold her enough to her break own her record at Worlds with a missed jump element & weak spiral sequence compared to her vastly improved one in the Bond program. Sigh. I guess I have high standards for Yu-na....

ditto on Danse Macabre - I feel like her Tango de Roxanne and Danse Macabre are really historical pieces.
That being said, it wasn't just the GOEs that took her up and away today, it was also the PCS, which I think she deserved considering how wonderfully packed and intricate this program was (low to middle 8s for all the components). And only one of her spins (the first FSSp) received a level four, none of her spiral/step sequences received level fours either, so I can't really agree with her being over-scored on that count (most of her spins in the SP got L4s).
I think this program's going to build - it depends on how she fleshes out some of the other elements (spins, spirals, etc) and really brings the program together into a cohesive whole, but with a proper flip put in there (base 5.5 with at least +1 GOE) and some polishing on the spins (as many have noted, they can use some work) I think we can see another landmark program in the making.

[figurejennah]

This kind of thing has come up A LOT ever since the Mao/Yuna rivalry started to develop. All I have to say is that everything is relative. First of all, if a jump is close to rotated (rotated means no more than 1/4 revolutions under-rotated), it is usually ratified. Sure, some of Yuna's jumps may be a bit more under-rotated than 1/4 revolutions. But other skaters (all skaters) get the benefit of this leeway too. It's not just Yuna.

Also, the ANGLE at which you watch the jumps makes a HUGE difference. A fully-rotated jump may look under-rotated if you look at it from a different angle.

Unless it's an obvious under-rotation (like 1/2 revolutions), you know, with a lot of the 3-3 combinations from Kimmie, I don't think it's worth posting ridiculous videos with lines and stuff on them. I'm not just saying this to Mao fans, Yuna fans also do this too I'm sure.

Let's get past things like this and look beyond it.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Someone posted a youtube link, that "allegedly" shows that yuna's jump was underrotated, and I was upset and was criticizing. I really honestly think that it's pointless that people would make such ridiculous videos, especially of someone like yuna, who jumps just like textbook style... Amazingly beautifully.

[herro]

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Someone posted a youtube link, that "allegedly" shows that yuna's jump was underrotated, and I was upset and was criticizing. I really honestly think that it's pointless that people would make such ridiculous videos, especially of someone like yuna, who jumps just like textbook style... Amazingly beautifully.

Oh hey figurejennah, sorry I messed up my "quoting" since I'm new to the forums. I was agreeing with you, saying that it's really unnecessary, not criticizing you or anything like that. My post was more directed at the youtube video as well.

[*Sniper*]

I like Yu-na's SP a lot more than her free as well. But her "Danse Macabre" was just a total masterpiece. I guess I'm old skool & feel that her Bond girl is just too light for the Olympics. I'm not saying that everything has to be deep & classical, but I dunno...Yu-na's programs for this season have sort of have been a let down for me. And dare I say it, her LP was overscored. I thought Mao was ovescored a couple of season's back when she didn't attempt one of her jump element & I apply that same rubric to Yu-na's program today. GOEs shouldn't hold her enough to her break own her record at Worlds with a missed jump element & weak spiral sequence compared to her vastly improved one in the Bond program. Sigh. I guess I have high standards for Yu-na....

I have a question about her spiral sequence.

Aesthetically, hers is definitely not the most pleasing one.
I think her stretch has improved a lot, but that free leg wobbles a bit too much for a top skater, and it seems bent at the knee, too.
Is that related to her back problems at all?

Also I've heard and read many times to know by now that it's the change of edges, speed, and ice coverage, etc that determine the score, not the free leg position.
So in terms of that, how does her spiral sequence really rate?

On one hand, I hear she is excellent in those qualities, and on the other, some people complain about her "weak" SS.

So which is it??
Can someone answer? Thank you.

[herro]

I have a question about her spiral sequence.

Aesthetically, hers is definitely not the most pleasing one.
I think her stretch has improved a lot, but that free leg wobbles a bit too much for a top skater, and it seems bent at the knee, too.
Is that related to her back problems at all?

Also I've heard and read many times to know by now that it's the change of edges, speed, and ice coverage, etc that determine the score, not the free leg position.
So in terms of that, how does her spiral sequence really rate?

On one hand, I hear she is excellent in those qualities, and on the other, some people complain about her "weak" SS.

So which is it??
Can someone answer? Thank you.

I think you've answered your own question.

I'm not sure if I can pinpoint every single detail of the spiral sequence that is judged, but ice coverage, speed, edges (stability of the edge as well as the edge change) all go into it. I thought I also read/heard somewhere that to go from level 3 to 4 (or was it 2 to 3) there's some sort of time requirement too, like how long you hold your positions. You can see that Yuna holds her first position for quite a longer time compared to other skaters. Her extension isn't too bad either. So I think Yuna and Orser are really being smart about it, in order to get the GOEs.

[figurejennah]

Sorry for misunderstood your original words, coz it sounded like you were so familiar with that kind of thing......

I DON'T think Yuna's jumps were often underrotated, actually none of her jumps had ever been underrotated by judges except those she failed.

I have no doubt about how your feelings towards other skaters, since you are so supportive for Yuna, how can you credit others jumps without bias......

Again, thanks for your sarcasm. Of course I've seen these video clips since they are all over youtube. I don't think I am typically biased, I think yuna is a human being and she certainly makes mistakes, too. And I do love many other female talented skaters. I love watching them and I admire a lot of them for their beauty, talent, and the hidden effort behind all that wonderful work. However, I think some skater's fans over react, and really come up with most ridiculous video clips I've ever seen on youtube. (ex. Yuna kim has done plastic surgery) Don't you think it's just too much that the moment we get the TEB results, someone has to post the link of this type of video on this forum? That's is what I am talking about.

Now, can we end this argument........... ? It is just getting a little too much for me. Being a fan is one thing, but let's not go too overboard.

[figurejennah]

Oh hey figurejennah, sorry I messed up my "quoting" since I'm new to the forums. I was agreeing with you, saying that it's really unnecessary, not criticizing you or anything like that. My post was more directed at the youtube video as well.

Understood. I am pretty new here too!!

[gourry]

Also I've heard and read many times to know by now that it's the change of edges, speed, and ice coverage, etc that determine the score, not the free leg position.
So in terms of that, how does her spiral sequence really rate?

They all count. There are 6 bulletins about positive GOEs and also 6 bulletins about negative GOEs on spiral. Oh I don't remember them all but all of them-posture, speed, edge, ice coverage, creativity, etc etc count.
So, there is no conspiracy on Yuna's spiral GOE or Mao's spiral GOE. There are plenty of features for both of them.
If you take your time and go back to 2009 worlds ladies LP thread, there were planty of explanation.

[bmelanie]

An explanation for Yuna missing the 3F:

Performing to Gershwin's Concerto in F, Kim opened with a spectacular triple Lutz, triple toe, worth 12 points. Her next element, a triple flip, was a non-starter; she just skated right through.

"When I prepared for the flip I felt something on the ice, and my body was shaking a little bit," she said.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

[amateur]

I like that YuNa's LP isn't too "exciting" at this point in the season.. this is music that demands something different from her interpretation-wise, from any of the programs she's had over the last couple of years (which interpretation-wise all tended to resemble each other, in a certain way). She will have to grow into this program if it is to become something special; I think that is a good thing, because she needs to have SOME kind of challenge for herself this season, seeing as just about everything else in her skating seems ready to go...

[Nadine]

Award Ceremonies going on now!

Poor Mao & the other ladies, there's no way they can win, Yuna only has to skate her SP like she did yesterday & she's already won, LP doesn't matter. In this new system, once you've built a substantial lead in the SP, LP no longer matters. And this is my opinion & I'm sticking with it, lol!

Yuna is a lock for Gold in every competition, but as I stated way back silver & bronze will be a dog fight!!!!!!!1