But to your real point - I don't think discussing Kwan, Sasha, Irina, etc. undermines any other skater - it just adds flavor and historical context to the conversation. I will always love Kwan best, because I'm an uber fan - but that doesn't or shouldn't take away from the current generation.
Us ol' school fans had to live through "yeah, she's talented, but she can't jump Midori" or "yeah, she's talented but she can't compete like Katt." Figure skating is a sport of passion - passion of the skaters and passion of the fans - with a long and rich history of outstanding achievement by a select few. And those select few have their fans and their detractors. So what? It doesn't diminish the accomplishments of Michelle's 9-time US championships or 5 world championships to say that Janet Lynn was the greatest of all time.
And you mark my words - if you stay engaged for another 10 years, you too will get caught up in a conversation about how "yeah, she can spin but she doesn't have the talent of Yuna! Now there's a skater's skater!!"
Until then, just enjoy the conversation and share your opinions and passion while we all Monday Morning Quarterback the athelets we love!
Last edited by Kwanford Wife; 10-19-2009 at 04:53 PM.
If anyone expected every person that watched her (or any skater's) new free FOR THE FIRST TIME to make immediate connections and gain understanding of the music and her intentions and etc, he/she shouldn't have.
Like you said, she tried something different she'd never done before, so it will take time for me and some others to get used to it as well.
My earlier comment that the other poster quoted (stopping short of accusing me of expecting a striptease or something ) just prior to this conversation was part of a longer post where I thanked one of our very knowledgeable posters who had explained how intricate and difficult all Yuna's elements were presented in her long program, which helped me understand what I should look for when watching it next time.
I'm a bit tired that all this "overscoring" issue is still here. If you have any clear evidence that she was overscored, just show it. But you won't find it, because it doesn't exist. She skated better than at Worlds and received 3 additional points to her score. Nothing more.
Actually she was surprised that she got so high score.
Blades of Passion
I think you're exaggerating here. It's not like she sells it, she's just amazingly beautiful and the last season she was sexy as well.Sex sells...and Yu-Na is selling it. She is presenting herself as a desirable, artistic, powerful young woman. That is what everyone wants to see in the Olympic Champion.
I find all this talk of people wanting Yu-Na to retire to give others a chance actually pretty funny. It wasn't all that long ago people were saying the same things about Michelle.
The more skating changes, the more it stays the same...
If you're tired of reading posts complaining about skaters being overscored now, then you're in for a long season here at GS or FSU or any figure skating message board out there. It's called the sport of Figure Skating under COP and it's going to happen again and again and again and again this season.
I'd also like to throw in there that Kim has only won one world title... she might want more. Its shocking to me how everyone forgets the one true-ism of skating - success cannot be assumed. success must be earned on the ice.
Two years ago, everyone needed to fear Mighty Mao! Four years ago, Irina should just be mailed her OGM and save everyone the trouble. Eight years ago, Sarah Hughes would be very successful if she finished fifth. It goes on and on...
And that's why we play the game.
Bond girls are pure sex. That is their only purpose and that is the SP she has chosen. She is CLEARLY trying to portray such a thing.
That aside, the idea of desirability is always a factor. If you know nothing at all about someone, but they appeal to you visually, then that is automatically going to be a plus. Even when Yu-Na isn't specifically trying to have sexy choreography, it comes across. That is part of why she receives the scores she does. She presents herself in a more appealing manner than any other female skater out there right now. People want her, or want to be her. This is the definition of "star quality".
Also, she didn't skate better at TEB than she did at Worlds? Her programs at Worlds were more refined. Yu-Na receives too much +GOE for her spins and her PCS are also too high (although, at the moment, she certainly deserves the highest PCS of any lady). She gets marks that represent masterpiece performances, when she is simply skating very good rather than OMG BEST PROGRAM EVER!!
Blades of Passion
I wouldn't look so deep in this. It's just a skating program.
In my opinion, she skated her LP better at TEB. And SP was of the same quality.Also, she didn't skate better at TEB than she did at Worlds?
Last edited by Daniel5555; 10-19-2009 at 07:03 PM.
I agree with the GOEs on the spins (she only got one Lv4 for her LP spins, as I recall) and I've never been blown away by her spirals, and no, she's not perfect, but I also think she gets more schtick than she deserves.
Where's your sense of humor?
I'm sure you would feel awkward if someone asked you, "How were you able to fit into Lambiel's suitcase?"
What I meant was, even the most casual skating fan, someone who watched figure skating for the first time in his/her life, after Yu-na's LP, could not have looked around the room and said "...so that's it?", unless he/she was expecting some kind of nudity.
Cuz it was pretty, if not beautiful, for any set of eyes.
Since when did a "storyline" become a necessity for a good skating performance, really.
Last edited by silverlining; 10-19-2009 at 07:26 PM.
So, do these threads always get this interesting?
Tigger, you are being overly sensitive and taking a fairly mild, general comment personally. Many of us are visually challenged, including me. Since you are calling me "arrogant" and offensive" you are personally attacking me. But here's the reality, I don't care what you think.
Daniel, I understand your points and they were nicely stated. Yu Na Kim is a brilliant skater. So is Mao Asada. Miki, Yukari and Joanne are also very fine skaters. I appreciate them for what/who they are. But I see a decline in the programs across the board. Yes, they are loaded with difficulty. But because the coaches and skaters are trying to pack difficulty into the program, they are sacrificing the overall beauty and choregraphy that used to make them works of art. During the golden epoque of Michelle, skating was an art form as well as a sport. Since then, it has become a checklist of "to do items." All the programs have a definite sameness about them. Michelle, herself, was doing some of that towards the end of her career. But the vast majority of her career and Sasha's and Irina's was spent putting unique and new competitive programs before the public. it was always exciting to see what they would come up with.
I also think Yu Na's scores are inflated. Her spins are o.k but not great. her spirals o.k. but I have seen better. Her layback not so good. Her jumps ARE textbook. I think Mao and Yu Na should be closer score wise. In the old days, this would have been the case. You need a road map to navigate the scoring system and if you are a casual viewer, it is impossible. Scores SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE EXPLAINED AND DISSECTED. That says it all.
As someone who has watched skating for a very long time, I see changes that worry me. I see a day when it will not be watched in the U.S. if this continues. Since I live in the U.S. and I have always loved skating, this is somewhat troubling to me. It may go the way of women's soccer and that would be a sad day indeed. Soccer is the number 1 sport in Europe, but not so here. I don't want that to happen to skating.