Could Sasha be the best ever?

kareliz · Oct 19, 2003

Quote from Gracefulswan - [ i wouldn't call her technique first rate by any means. her jumps are not secure a lot still even when she lands them... now, kwan's jumps are the most secure and with perfect run-out and edging... the speed and flow is so effortless (at least she makes it appear that it is while sasha does not... she has low, shaky landings many times).]

ITA. I love many aspects of Sasha's skating, but honestly, her landings drive me crazy. She never looks "into the ice." Her edges wobble. And even when she holds the edge, her landings look hard, like she's pounding down instead of flowing out.

I would be delighted to see her improve this. She has some fabulous moves and great ability, and in a couple respects, has abilities that Michele does not. But she could learn a lot about how to land a jump by studying Michele.

It should be a great nationals!

Joesitz (RIP) · Oct 19, 2003

Rgirl said:
Since Campbell's has come up, question for the mods: Should we start threads on the televised version of Campbell's in the Campbell's folder or in The Edge?

rGirl - I think it's ok to reference Campbells but not to do a whole discourse on it. Paula has a point in keeping the Edge the way it is.

Ultimately, I think sports historians will do the "official" job of citing which skaters are among the best for a given era, but in the hearts of die-hard fans of any skater, no amount of discussion will change how they feel. .

Rgirl

ITA. I've already read not very pleasant remarks about skaters of the past from those who know nothing about the past first hand. I think if we had a poll on the 'best skater ever', MK would win but that's because she has. at the moment, the legion of fans NOW. 20 years from now it will be another skater. I will leave it to the sports historians, and depending on their age, I will understand their results. In the meantime, I do the 'body of work' - not for medals but for what I see. In the case of Sasha, she did a heluva job at 2000 Nats and again at 2003 Campbells. This to me is the beginning of a 'body of work'.

Mathman · Oct 19, 2003

Is Sasha the best ever? Well, Peggy Fleming just said on TV that Sasha is the most brilliant technical skater to come along "in decades." She didn't say how many decades, so I don't know if that goes back to 1968 or not. Also, "if she can rein in her talent, she'll be unbeatable." So there you go.

About medals, many Americans think that Janet Lynn was the best ever, even though she never won a world or Olympic championship. But she was the champion of their hearts.

Mathman

mpal2 · Oct 19, 2003

Mathman said:
Is Sasha the best ever? Well, Peggy Fleming just said on TV that Sasha is the most brilliant technical skater to come along "in decades." She didn't say how many decades, so I don't know if that goes back to 1968 or not. Also, "if she can reign in her talent, she'll be unbeatable." So there you go.

About medals, many Americans think that Janet Lynn was the best ever, even though she never won a world or Olympic championship. But she was the champion of their hearts.

Mathman

But they also called Sarah Hughes graceful and I still don't get that one. I think Dick & Peggy are trying to hype the next US skaters that are not named Michelle because she has to retire sometime. Either that or they both secretly smoke crack.

In spite of all that, I enjoyed watching the new skating season unfold and look forward to what Sasha and Ann Patrice do on the Grand Prix circuit this year.

Fossi · Oct 19, 2003

No. I don't think Sasha is or will be the best ever. She may win a National title, and maybe a World title. I don't think she can win multiple titles. I guess we'll see though. I also disagree that she is the best technical skater, and I think the commentators should be very embarassed they say that stuff.

Mistyeyed · Oct 19, 2003

Sasha's lovely and she deserves her moment of glory as all winners do but to say she is the best ever................

All winners when they hit all their elements and they are right dead on and really touch our emotions then they are considered the best.

I don't think it would be fair to all the winners before Sasha or after Sasha to say that she is/couldbe the best female skaters ever.

Sasha is learning to be tactful and take her win with grace and appreciation. That is wonderful to see. I'm sold on Sasha but Michelle Kwan is still my favorate all time skater. Mishelle is like Coco Cola-she never will go out of style!

Ogre Mage · Oct 20, 2003

mpal2 said:
But they also called Sarah Hughes graceful and I still don't get that one. I think Dick & Peggy are trying to hype the next US skaters that are not named Michelle because she has to retire sometime. Either that or they both secretly smoke crack.

In spite of all that, I enjoyed watching the new skating season unfold and look forward to what Sasha and Ann Patrice do on the Grand Prix circuit this year.

I actually think that Sarah brings good interpretive qualities and musicality to her programs. But this is often obscured because of poor posture/line and cluttered/questionable choreography. However she is capable of it, as in her 2002 Olympic Free Skate. So it depends how you define grace.

I won't comment on Sasha being the best ever because I don't think that can be answered until she retires from amateur skating.

berthes ghost · Oct 20, 2003

First let's get one thing straight: Dick and Peggy make way too much money to be smoking crack.

Second, I'd have to hand the title over to Sonja. Not only did she beat everyone in sight for a decade, but she had the biggest influence on US skating out of anyone.

diamondqueen · Oct 20, 2003

I don't think so. She is a very good skater but the best ever is going way to far. Sahsa is not in the same category as Kwan, Fleming or Hamil. She has yet to prove herself and has a long way to go. And most important, Sasha needs to watch out for Michelle Kwan. Michelle will not give in up any title without a fight. When Kwan is ready, then maybe you can talk about Sasha being the best. As for my money, I am sticking with the proven one, Michelle Kwan, as the best ever.

diamond:

curious · Oct 20, 2003

Sasha the best technical skater has to be the biggest joke I have heard. Irina,Vika and the Japanese skaters are the best,even Michell is a better technical skater than Sasha.

Joesitz (RIP) · Oct 20, 2003

I don't think anyone is saying Sasha is the best technical skater. They seem to me to be referring to her technique. In other words, it is not the elements she is doing it is how those elements are being performed. For example, all divers do the swan dive, but which diver has the best technique or do any of them have poor technique?

I do not see solid landings on Sasha's jumps so I would say her jumping technique needs work. She does not have a true lutz. I am not taling about number of rotations. Sasha does have excellent entry into and out of spins with excellent position. That is excellent technique.

Her positions on spirals are now legendary(great technique), but her basics seem flawed to me (poor technique - my opinion). So to answer the question, does she have great technique, I would say, for the most part, yes.

Joe

patsue47 · Oct 20, 2003

Sasha could win all the GP series heading to 2006 Olympics, win the next 3 National titles, the 2006 Olympics and 2006 Worlds and will never be the best ever, to me. I don't believe in the "best ever"--each sport evolves and old records are made to be broken (Babe Ruth for example, his home run record has been broken a few times now--does that lessen his achievements in baseball--NO. He was "one of the best" of his era--just as Maguire, Sosa, etc will be considered two of the best of this era). Or take basketball--Chamberlain and Russell were two of the greatest of their era--but to call Jordan the best of all time is diminishing the records of other great figures of their times--Dr. J, Bill Walton, etc.

Why is it so necessary to denigrate other sports figures because you happen to like some one else? I'm sure Sasha will be considered "one of the best" of her era as will Irina Slutskaya, Michelle Kwan, Kristi Yamaguchi, Dorothy Hamil, Peggy Fleming--nothing will ever diminish their places in figure skating, they were/are the best of their eras.

We should just be thankful that these women compete/competed and that we were blessed to have them touch our hearts and sensibilities, and with the new technologies be even more thankful we have access to see the performances. Like who you like, be a fan of whomever--but it's really not necessary to build them up and try to put them on pedestals.

Ogre Mage · Oct 20, 2003

Technical vs. Technique

Joesitz said:
I don't think anyone is saying Sasha is the best technical skater. They seem to me to be referring to her technique. In other words, it is not the elements she is doing it is how those elements are being performed. For example, all divers do the swan dive, but which diver has the best technique or do any of them have poor technique?

Joe

Joe makes a good point here which is worth repeating. In skating, technical and technique are not the same.

Technical = the degree of difficulty of the moves
Technique = if the move is performed properly/in good form

Michelle Kwan for instance, generally has less technical difficulty than some of the other skaters. But her technique is outstanding.

In contrast, Sarah Hughes had a great deal of technical difficulty in her programs. But because of her flutz and underrotation, her technique was flawed.

Sasha has a nice balance of both technical and technique (although she has her problems too).

Kara Bear · Oct 20, 2003

We should just be thankful that these women compete/competed and that we were blessed to have them touch our hearts and sensibilities, and with the new technologies be even more thankful we have access to see the performances. Like who you like, be a fan of whomever--but it's really not necessary to build them up and try to put them on pedestals.

AMEN TO THAT!

Piel · Oct 20, 2003

I think that what a lot of these threads come down to is that everyone likes to see their choice of favorites validated as "THE BEST" of something whether it be a particular move, costume, program, application of eyeliner, or looks cutest back stage when caught by the camera between showing fluff pieces and actual skating.

That said, they sure are fun!

Rgirl · Oct 20, 2003

Joe--Excellent points and very well put. ITA.

Piel--I think you hit the nail on the head. As if no matter what skater's name was put in the question "Could ------- be the best ever?" everybody would say, "Ya know, now that you bring put it that way, yeah, I agree! I think s/he could indeed by the best ever!!!" The day we have an entire thread in agreement on that will be the day GS crashes in fear of its own binomial data, lol.
Rgirl

Mathman · Oct 20, 2003

Piel said:
I think that what a lot of these threads come down to is that everyone likes to see their choice of favorites validated as "THE BEST" of something whether it be a particular move, costume, program, application of eyeliner, or looks cutest back stage when caught by the camera between showing fluff pieces and actual skating. That said, they sure are fun!

Are you kidding? Nobody, and I mean NOBODY holds a candle to Michelle when it comes to eyeliner!

MM

Piel · Oct 20, 2003

Up until Campbell's IMO Peggy was the eyeliner queen. But Michelle now has that title too!

lulu · Oct 20, 2003

it's all perspective and personal opinion...

ITA. A lot of this suff is subjective.

Which doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good debate about it!

Jaana · Oct 21, 2003

About Sasha being the best ever, it would depend on what to compare.

As a competitor I don´t think that she would become the best ever, if we consider the amount of medals she should win during her skating career. If I´m thinking how beautiful and effortless her skating (including every single move and jumping) looks on the ice and how wonderfully and perfectly she expresses feelings and really interprets the music, that is the area where she really shines. There she is the best ever I have seen since early sixties.

Marjaana

Could Sasha be the best ever?

kareliz

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

mpal2

Fossi

Mistyeyed

Ogre Mage

berthes ghost

diamondqueen

curious

Joesitz (RIP)

patsue47

Ogre Mage

Kara Bear

Piel

On Edge

Rgirl

Mathman

Piel

On Edge

lulu

Jaana

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