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Thread: U.S. ladies’ prospects?

  1. #31
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    i am not going to back down--they are discrimnatory against carolina zhang--fans, and everyone else it hoping and holding her down.

    HER JUMPS HEIGHT HAS IMPROVEd-she does need to speed up a bit--but no more than ususal, she doesn't pre-rotate.
    ALEXE Was overmarked at TEB.
    so was yu-na even though she skated well, they didn't mark her two urs in the long and her ur combo in the short triple/triple.
    maos was about right--trying to hard-she doesn't make it look easy.
    yukari-program was a bore to me and a bit over marked.
    as of now--the US GOT WHAT IT wanted Rachel will be overmarked as well as the white us skaters. make no doubt about it.
    teb proved me right all along--
    carolilne zhang hs to skate perfect--other white skaters can screw up and get scores that are overinflated as usual--the same old same old. from usfsa to isu.

    until they change I WILL NOT BUY AND ENDOrSe ANG OLY MEdALIST ANd continue to spread the word not to buy the products-because of cheating and also because once the medalist endorse a product the price goes up. so i will not be a party to it and make sure family and friends, co-workers know the reason.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitt
    I can't wait to see what Ashley does this weekend. She's quite dynamic.
    Wagner said in her latest vlog that she arrived in Russia safely and smoothly, and that things are going well (so far).

  3. #33
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    no--rachel cant only if they cheat--which they will for her.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairly4 View Post
    i am not going to back down--they are discrimnatory against carolina zhang--fans, and everyone else it hoping and holding her down.

    HER JUMPS HEIGHT HAS IMPROVEd-she does need to speed up a bit--but no more than ususal, she doesn't pre-rotate.
    ALEXE Was overmarked at TEB.
    so was yu-na even though she skated well, they didn't mark her two urs in the long and her ur combo in the short triple/triple.
    maos was about right--trying to hard-she doesn't make it look easy.
    yukari-program was a bore to me and a bit over marked.
    as of now--the US GOT WHAT IT wanted Rachel will be overmarked as well as the white us skaters. make no doubt about it.
    teb proved me right all along--
    carolilne zhang hs to skate perfect--other white skaters can screw up and get scores that are overinflated as usual--the same old same old. from usfsa to isu.

    until they change I WILL NOT BUY AND ENDOrSe ANG OLY MEdALIST ANd continue to spread the word not to buy the products-because of cheating and also because once the medalist endorse a product the price goes up. so i will not be a party to it and make sure family and friends, co-workers know the reason.
    :boohoo:

  5. #35
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    Rachael and Mirai will be the best bet, they have the most complete package among all the candidates and better consistency than the other ladies. Caroline is fairly consistent and her spins are amazing, but her awful speed and jump technique are killing her chance. Alissa has strong PCS, but doesn't have reliable triples, if she can't fix the jumps by nationals, she won't go. Ashley and Alexe could be the dark horses, although the chances are slim. Sasha, I won't say anything till I see her at Skate America.

  6. #36
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    Perhaps the US girls will all step up at Nationals and surprise us. Right now it seems to be anyones game. Nobody really sings except Sasha and Im beginning to worry she won't show.

  7. #37
    Figure Skating Fan Hikaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Most things in skating are rarely about raw muscle but much more about technique. For speed it is about using your edges, lean, correct stroking and knee bend and flexing. That is what generates power and speed.

    Ant
    I agree with you! Maybe if she had more speed, she could volt herself into the air with a simple pick, rather than having to raise her leg so high to pick the ice... sometimes I fear she will lose balance and fall flat in her face =/

  8. #38
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Zhang's jumps are incredibly lacking. They have Tara Lipinski height, without the brilliant rotation Tara acheived.

    Zhang barely jumps in her jumps. She winds her body up and then pre-rotates like mad on the ice to achieve her jumps. It is simply ugly. Her Triple Loop looks okay (although still quite lacking) because that's kind of how you execute that jump anyway (the wind up and skid off the ice), but the rest of her jumps are the lowest quality I've ever seen from a skater who wants to be taken seriously as a Senior competitor.

    She didn't even do the 3-3 at TEB, which was the only saving grace she had in her jump arsenal (the few times she was able to rotate it sufficiently).
    Last edited by Blades of Passion; 10-20-2009 at 04:12 PM.

  9. #39
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikaru View Post
    I agree with you! Maybe if she had more speed, she could volt herself into the air with a simple pick, rather than having to raise her leg so high to pick the ice... sometimes I fear she will lose balance and fall flat in her face =/
    Actually, when you kick above your knee to pick like that, you are losing momentum as opposed to generating a good jump or creating lift. If she would reach back and vault off the non-picking leg instead of using the hammer toe technique, even with less speed she could achieve greater height. The most unfortunate part is, that this technique likely feels "right" to her and so fixing it would be a conscious effort on her part and likely incredibly difficult when skating programs since she's done it this way so long. This could have been corrected back when learning doubles/triples but would have required not moving up levels as quickly (maybe spending an extra year in Juvenile, Intermediate, or Novice).

    I've seen skaters who have relearned corrected technique be able to regain triples once they pass the growth spurt stage - one who has reached the relatively tall height for a skater of 5'7".

  10. #40
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    Zhang had a disappointed and pissed off reaction to her scores at TEB and when interviewed about what she needed to work on she seemed to not realize it was her jumps and her speed. If she doesn't think they are a problem and her coach does not help her realize this and she doesn't consult with judges then she will not improve and will not be a competitor. She has gotten a bit speedier but going into her jumps she practically stops and has no momentum. The mule kick obscures the takeoff and the jumps are eensy teensy, lower than any junior. And she doesn't get it. The spins are to die for but there's more to it than that.

    I think it's going to be between Mirai and Ashley and Rachel. Actually I think it will be Rachel and someone else. Sasha is a long shot. Then again, it is ice we're talking about lol.

  11. #41
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    I'll wait to see Rachel compete this year before I even think about saying she's a lock for the team. And even if she has the best showing of the Americans, things happen- she can have an off-night, or even worse, forced to WD.

    Everyone else is too flip-floppy to really make a sound prediction on their standings to make the Team.

  12. #42
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairly4 View Post
    i am not going to back down--they are discrimnatory against carolina zhang--fans, and everyone else it hoping and holding her down.

    HER JUMPS HEIGHT HAS IMPROVEd-she does need to speed up a bit--but no more than ususal, she doesn't pre-rotate.
    ALEXE Was overmarked at TEB.
    so was yu-na even though she skated well, they didn't mark her two urs in the long and her ur combo in the short triple/triple.
    maos was about right--trying to hard-she doesn't make it look easy.
    yukari-program was a bore to me and a bit over marked.
    as of now--the US GOT WHAT IT wanted Rachel will be overmarked as well as the white us skaters. make no doubt about it.
    teb proved me right all along--
    carolilne zhang hs to skate perfect--other white skaters can screw up and get scores that are overinflated as usual--the same old same old. from usfsa to isu.

    until they change I WILL NOT BUY AND ENDOrSe ANG OLY MEdALIST ANd continue to spread the word not to buy the products-because of cheating and also because once the medalist endorse a product the price goes up. so i will not be a party to it and make sure family and friends, co-workers know the reason.
    I am a huge Caroline fan and the first thing I would say is that Caroline appeared to be marked fairly at TEB. If she might have deserved a little more for her SP then her tepid LP might have been overmarked.

    You continue to make these accusations about US Skating being racist. Is it possible for you to offer any proof to back up your allegations?

    Here is something for you to consider. In the 1980's US Skating had a wonderful National and World Champion and an Olympic medalist named Debi Thomas. Debi is an African-American and when she came on the ice to perform American fans cheered for her the same way they did for her predecessor, Roz Sumners.

    In the early 90's US Skating had a Natl, World and Olympic champion named Kristi Yamaguci. Kristi is a Japanese- American and one of America's best loved skaters. After Kristi, we had Nancy and Nicole and then came Michelle.
    It feels silly to have to say this but Michelle is not a white girl. Actually Michelle transcended any racial or ethnic barriers and became perhaps the most beloved US skating champion in history. Since Michelle retired we have a new crop of skaters and there are white, asian and African -American skaters all trying to make a name for themselves. I think we also have a young Hispanic skater too.

    If you didn't keep mentioning it here it would never enter my mind that Caroline is Chinese-American. She is one of the very most popular skaters here at GS. When I think of Caroline I see a great young All-American girl. Smart, pretty, competitive and talented.

    So please consider what I have said. US Skating may be guilty of many things but I doubt that racism or ethnic bigotry is one of them. Recent history and the diverse background of our splendid Lady Champions would prove otherwise.
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-21-2009 at 07:24 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    Thanks, Ant, especially about the insights on speed. I've taken ballet and know how hard it is to master correct technique and to fix bad technique, but good teachers insist on it. At 16, I think Caroline should just stop and fix it; her chances of getting to Vancouver are small, and if she does go, her chances of medaling are nil. Of course, maybe she just doesn't have the spring for jumping and never will.
    I suppose that it would be very difficult to tell a 16 year old to ruin her chances of making the Olympic team bu working on fundamental technique issues right now once the seasno has started.

    As to the spring in jumps, I have first hand experience of focused plyometric training having great results on jump height and spring, and for me it was in a very short period of time. Maybe Zhang isn't doing enough of the right kind of off ice training to help her with jump height? I expect that a lot of off ice time for her must go into flexibility.

    Ant

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Zhang's jumps are incredibly lacking. They have Tara Lipinski height, without the brilliant rotation Tara acheived.

    Zhang barely jumps in her jumps. She winds her body up and then pre-rotates like mad on the ice to achieve her jumps. It is simply ugly. Her Triple Loop looks okay (although still quite lacking) because that's kind of how you execute that jump anyway (the wind up and skid off the ice), but the rest of her jumps are the lowest quality I've ever seen from a skater who wants to be taken seriously as a Senior competitor.
    That's rich. The way I see it Caroline Zhang and Tara Lipinski have the exact same technique. Many seem to forget that Lipinski kicked up her free leg in the entrance to the lutz and flip the same way that Zhang does.

    Moreover, Tara pre-rotated her upper body the same way that Caroline does to eke out just enough height to complete three (rocket) rotations.

    I think the only difference is the scoring system. 6.0 did not not analyze the technique the way CoP currently does.

  15. #45
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by layman View Post
    That's rich. The way I see it Caroline Zhang and Tara Lipinski have the exact same technique. Many seem to forget that Lipinski kicked up her free leg in the entrance to the lutz and flip the same way that Zhang does.

    Moreover, Tara pre-rotated her upper body the same way that Caroline does to eke out just enough height to complete three (rocket) rotations.
    They absolutely, categorically do/did not have the same technique at all!

    Lipinski might have had a higher than usual picking leg, but it was no worse than say Mao's picking techqniue. Both Sarah H and Caroline have much higher kicking free legs and harder pick ins thatn Tara ever did.

    But the worst technique that carline has that Tara never had was the extreme wind up corkscrew position she gets into on the approach to every jump. Tara did not have that at all - no-one does, Caroline is in a league of her own when it come to that.

    Ant

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