Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4
Results 46 to 60 of 60

Thread: U.S. ladies’ prospects?

  1. #46
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,187
    Caroline seems a bit of an enigma as well when it comes to self-critique and self-image of her skating. One aspect of her reputation that I have heard is that she is reluctant to think she has to change much when it comes to working with new or other coaches, dance teachers. On the other hand, she always seems to take a somewhat overly critical view of her own performances when asked by the media after she skates. Kind of odd. The other way around would help her more I would think. Just an observation which perplexes me about her.

  2. #47
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    262
    I just cannot wait to see all of the American ladies skate. And I wish for them to do well. I think in countries like Russia, Japan, Korea and China, their skating federations pick the talented skaters as they seem them when they are very young and give them funds and full support to train them to become world class competitors. That system can easily create worldwide competitive skaters but somehow takes the opportunity and dream away from the "not so talented" children to even try to become a great skater, at an early age. Only a few chosen ones are seen as able to succeed.
    As you know, in America, whoever has the means and opportunity to skate has the chance to pursue their dreams. It is much harder for skaters to become world-class ranked, because USFSA does not financially support them until they really start winning at big competitions like sectionals or nationals.They have to find their coaches, choreographer, personal trainer all by themselves. So most of the skaters have to find ways to become great skaters on their own. It is a lot of work for both the parents and skaters. However, anyone can keep on trying. So I really admire all the American skaters for building their way to success almost by themselves.

    Go Rachael, Go Caroline, Go Mirai, Go Alissa, Go Alexe, Go Sasha!!!

  3. #48
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by PROKOFIEV View Post
    I just cannot wait to see all of the American ladies skate. And I wish for them to do well. I think in countries like Russia, Japan, Korea and China, their skating federations pick the talented skaters as they seem them when they are very young and give them funds and full support to train them to become world class competitors. That system can easily create worldwide competitive skaters but somehow takes the opportunity and dream away from the "not so talented" children to even try to become a great skater, at an early age. Only a few chosen ones are seen as able to succeed.
    As you know, in America, whoever has the means and opportunity to skate has the chance to pursue their dreams. It is much harder for skaters to become world-class ranked, because USFSA does not financially support them until they really start winning at big competitions like sectionals or nationals.They have to find their coaches, choreographer, personal trainer all by themselves. So most of the skaters have to find ways to become great skaters on their own. It is a lot of work for both the parents and skaters. However, anyone can keep on trying. So I really admire all the American skaters for building their way to success almost by themselves.

    Go Rachael, Go Caroline, Go Mirai, Go Alissa, Go Alexe, Go Sasha!!!
    While I see your point, I think it's important to consider the flip-side of the US model of talent development, namely that the expectation to "become great skaters on their own" makes figure skating (relatively speaking) a rich-person's sport.

  4. #49
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,152
    Quote Originally Posted by layman View Post
    That's rich. The way I see it Caroline Zhang and Tara Lipinski have the exact same technique. Many seem to forget that Lipinski kicked up her free leg in the entrance to the lutz and flip the same way that Zhang does.

    Moreover, Tara pre-rotated her upper body the same way that Caroline does to eke out just enough height to complete three (rocket) rotations.

    I think the only difference is the scoring system. 6.0 did not not analyze the technique the way CoP currently does.
    This is incorrect.

    Watch Tara's 3Flip closely. She picks into the ice perfectly and her foot leaves the ice immediately. There isn't even a 1/4 turn of pre-rotation. Tara does not wind her body up and skid off the ice; she actually jumps.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2fWEpIGxj4

    Tara did have a kind of kick on her Lutz but it wasn't as bad as Zhang's and, once again, she didn't spin off the ice like Zhang does either.

    It's actually very commendable how much rotation Tara got. Especially among women, the Lutz and Flip often leave the ice a half-rotation into the jump. This was the technique Michelle Kwan used (although, note, that doesn't equate to spinning of the ice like Zhang does. Kwan still jumped and THEN rotated). Tara's toepick didn't pre-rotate at all.

    I'm pretty sure Tara rotated faster in her jumps than anyone else in history. Her jumps lacked height but they went around neatly.

  5. #50
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Tara did have a kind of kick on her Lutz but it wasn't as bad as Zhang's and, once again, she didn't spin off the ice like Zhang does either.
    I have to agree that Tara's kick was nowhere near as bad as Zhang's. Look at her FS from this past TEB, for example. When preparing for the toe-pick, her upper body is virtually horizontal, and her right foot is way above her head!

  6. #51
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,152
    Also, wow, that program from Tara is so completely underrated. Sandra Bezic did a marvelous job with the choreography and Tara felt it with genuine emotion and EXCITEMENT.

    The differences between 6.0 and CoP are very striking here. Tara only has 6 jumping passes, her footwork gently glides across the ice rather than twisting in turning in every which direction, the Spiral highlights the music and uses up only a brief amount of time rather laboring across the ice, and the spins are quick and neat rather than incorporating positions which add nothing to the texture of the music.

    Spending less time jumping, spiraling, and spinning, there is actually room in the program to just SKATE and interpret the music.

  7. #52
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by PROKOFIEV View Post
    I just cannot wait to see all of the American ladies skate. And I wish for them to do well. I think in countries like Russia, Japan, Korea and China, their skating federations pick the talented skaters as they seem them when they are very young and give them funds and full support to train them to become world class competitors....
    For your information, remove Korea out of the list. There's no such national program in Korea, and there no monetary support for any figure skater in Korea, including Yuna. - They actually get 30% of Yuna's winning money always, and then last year gave about the same amount and called it support. - Skating Union in KR is all about short-track, and there's no training link for figure skater. That's one of the reason Yuna's training in CA. Before that, she used public link in the mall. Sad to say, I think Yuna will be one and only figure skater in that level from Korea, for a long time if they don't start do something.

    Flip side of this story is that, great talent will bloom regardless of the environment. And I believe US has much much better environment that that of KR, so I'm sure we'll see another brilliant skaters from US soon.
    Last edited by sleepymom; 10-22-2009 at 12:36 AM.

  8. #53
    Lambiel is the best!!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    450
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepymom View Post
    For your information, remove Korea out of the list. There's no such national program in Korea, and there no monetary support for any figure skater in Korea, including Yuna. - They actually get 30% of Yuna's winning money always, and then last year gave about the same amount and called it support. - Skating Union in KR is all about short-track, and there's no training link for figure skater. That's one of the reason Yuna's training in CA. Before that, she used public link in the mall. Sad to say, I think Yuna will be one and only figure skater in that level from Korea, for a long time if they don't start do something.

    Flip side of this story is that, great talent will bloom regardless of the environment. And I believe US has much much better environment that that of KR, so I'm sure we'll see another brilliant skaters from US soon.
    Talk about 'Miracle on Ice.'


    Obviously, the US ladies need some catching up to do.
    I don't have personal favorites for the two Olympic spots at the moment.
    Whoever is in the best shape at the Nationals, I will fully support!

    My guess is that Sasha will get one of the spots if she finishes at least third, unless the top two are in absolutely sparkling forms.

    Good luck to them all!

  9. #54
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    423
    Quote Originally Posted by PROKOFIEV View Post
    I just cannot wait to see all of the American ladies skate. And I wish for them to do well. I think in countries like Russia, Japan, Korea and China, their skating federations pick the talented skaters as they seem them when they are very young and give them funds and full support to train them to become world class competitors. That system can easily create worldwide competitive skaters but somehow takes the opportunity and dream away from the "not so talented" children to even try to become a great skater, at an early age. Only a few chosen ones are seen as able to succeed.
    As you know, in America, whoever has the means and opportunity to skate has the chance to pursue their dreams. It is much harder for skaters to become world-class ranked, because USFSA does not financially support them until they really start winning at big competitions like sectionals or nationals.They have to find their coaches, choreographer, personal trainer all by themselves. So most of the skaters have to find ways to become great skaters on their own. It is a lot of work for both the parents and skaters. However, anyone can keep on trying. So I really admire all the American skaters for building their way to success almost by themselves.

    Go Rachael, Go Caroline, Go Mirai, Go Alissa, Go Alexe, Go Sasha!!!
    I think you are referring to the old Soviet elite sport system. AFAIK, even Russia doesn't have the system any more, but I am not sure about China. The Korean govenment is not directly involved in elite sports any more. The only support from the government is the pension fund for Oly medalists, which is only $600 a month for OGM, not a big money.

    Basically, FS is a rich's sport in Korea just as in US. You have to take care of yourself. KSU is obviously a civil organization. Financially, it depends on corporate sponsors. After YuNa's success, it seems to be better financially, I don't know the details though. So, it seems to me, YuNa is helping KSU, not the other way. Now, if you are national team, you get free ice time (2 hr a day or so) and small amount of financial support. YuNa's financial source is her sponsors and her endorsement deals (which is big). Her big success encourages many kids to learn skating and new ice rinks to be built.

  10. #55
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Also, wow, that program from Tara is so completely underrated. Sandra Bezic did a marvelous job with the choreography and Tara felt it with genuine emotion and EXCITEMENT.

    The differences between 6.0 and CoP are very striking here. Tara only has 6 jumping passes, her footwork gently glides across the ice rather than twisting in turning in every which direction, the Spiral highlights the music and uses up only a brief amount of time rather laboring across the ice, and the spins are quick and neat rather than incorporating positions which add nothing to the texture of the music.

    Spending less time jumping, spiraling, and spinning, there is actually room in the program to just SKATE and interpret the music.
    I have to agree I love tara program choreographically; but I ironically i found the spins and footwork to be so light and forgettable that they did little to help express the music; other than the jumps there was just skating; The program seemed to boil down to great arm movements and jumps; I actually like the COP step sequences as skater like yu na; asada;chan;kozuka; daisuke; oda ; verner, Abbot and even evan uses them to really bring the music to life, But i have to agree with the spiral; We really should make spiral sequences optional.

  11. #56
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,152
    Well, let's go through the spins:

    1.) The opening layback. I liked how gentle it was. This fit the music.

    2.) Combination spin after the Lutz combination. Had good speed and centering. Her position in the first sit spin was excellent. The second half of the spin wasn't as strong as the first half, but I will take this combination spin over one that slows down and/or loses centering because of incorporating pointless changes of edge or "difficult" positions

    3.) Camel-change-Camel after the 3Loop-3Loop. Had pretty good speed and centering. I think a sit-change-sit would have been better here, but nothing about this spin was bad.

    4.) The final flying Camel spin after the 3Toe-3Sal. This was very effective. The 3Toe-3Sal combination at the end of the program highlighted the music wonderfully (and SO gutsy doing something like that literally at the very end of a performance) but, given its placement in the program, there was barely any time left for a spin. Under CoP, a lengthier spin would have been required to maximize points. The illusion spin Tara does at the end of the flying camel is a perfect match for the excitement of her performance and the music. Pretty sad how illusion spins don't get any credit in CoP.

    I think Tara's footwork could have benefited a little from more complexity, but for the music that footwork sequence was preferable to one where the upper body is constantly dropping and swinging around - something which CoP encourages.

  12. #57
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,490
    How interesting to see an analysis of Tara's program to contrast with today's typical COP programs. In the Michelle-Tara competitions, I supported Michelle, but I could certainly appreciate Tara's abilities. She wasn't the kind of artist whose interpretation lives through the ages (like Janet Lynn's Afternoon of a Faun or Wylie's Henry V, say), but she was a precise, meticulous skater, and in these days of crash-and-burn competitors, her steadiness is refreshing to recall. While I understand the reason for COP, it's true that the constant wish to add points can result in a rather busy, hectic program. Thanks for the reminder of Tara's Sandra Bezic program, and the breakdown of her jumping technique.

  13. #58
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    21
    I adore Ashley Wagner!! Her future is bright for sure! Even though she is yet to be one of the best skaters, she has a lot of potentials

  14. #59
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    4,990
    Quote Originally Posted by lcd View Post
    Caroline seems a bit of an enigma as well when it comes to self-critique and self-image of her skating. One aspect of her reputation that I have heard is that she is reluctant to think she has to change much when it comes to working with new or other coaches, dance teachers. On the other hand, she always seems to take a somewhat overly critical view of her own performances when asked by the media after she skates. Kind of odd. The other way around would help her more I would think. Just an observation which perplexes me about her.
    Those two characteristics are not really in opposition. She is frustrated with her scores because she feels that she is skating better than that. She is reluctant to make changes to her skating because she is happy with the way she skates, just not the scores.

  15. #60
    Custom Title Phoenix347's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    661
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Those two characteristics are not really in opposition. She is frustrated with her scores because she feels that she is skating better than that. She is reluctant to make changes to her skating because she is happy with the way she skates, just not the scores.
    I would say to Caroline, look at your score sheet very carefully and figure out what they're looking for and do it. Then she won't be as unhappy with her scores and be less critical of her performance. I know she's young but get to the next level, she will need to become more mature.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •