Mao's programs this year | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Mao's programs this year

SXTN

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
i think the two programs are good---> but not for mao

she is a very light und lyrical skater who needs soft music... watch her tarasova programs and after nocturne... it makes me nuts how that woman destroys her style... nocturne was so effortless und natural and now you really feel how uncomfortable mao is with the music.. everything seems forced... and thats one of the main reasons why yuna kim now has such an edge over mao in pcs... yuna steps out onto the ice, feels comfortable and there's almost an arrogance about her performances.. you know that she is never going to fail... when mao comes out on the ice , i really hold my breathe... because she is nervous and so am i ...

i also think tat is ignorant.. every commentator on tv basically says the same... that the music and the style doesn't fit mao.. but tat doesn't care because she likes that music, amen

besides: what are they doing with mao's jumps? i'm not an expert but why did they change her flip? to my mind, aratunian did the right thing of not changing her lutz.. it was a secure jump for her . who cares about a 1-point-deduction? with aratunian mao was able to do 3-3 combos with the 3T and now even her double loops in combination get downgraded regularly...
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
It interests me that Mao chose that LP music (among the ones suggested by TAT perhaps) and the SP music. It may be that she likes that kind of powerful music.

Regarding the jumps, I feel that Mao may be too worried about downgrade and edge calls so that she cannot put her Lz and 3-3. But I hope that she recovers her confidence enough to put them back. Three 3As seem a bit too risky. Now that the rules about DG changed, she may get better scores even when dinged.
 

SXTN

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
do you really think she chose it? i don't think so... tat suggested it and mao had to say yes.. that's my opinion
 

Lumi

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
It interests me that Mao chose that LP music (among the ones suggested by TAT perhaps) and the SP music. It may be that she likes that kind of powerful music...

It was stated on other board that Mao did not choose these music pieces. She orginally picked "Caprice" to be her SP music but TAT said to her that it didn't work so they made it her EX program. Mao agreed to us last year's LP music to her SP because TAT said they were going to use softer flute version. That didn't happen for some reason and they used last season's version. Mao also picked different music for her LP at first but Tarasova managed to talk her over to use Bell's.
 

Jasper

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Tarasova has done nothing positive for Mao. It's sad really. Her presentation, costumes, choreography - it's all off. And you can see that Mao feels the pressure to live up to Kim and the Japanese press and is not enjoying herself at all.

Can't she skate to something more her age? Can't she wear a dress that she doesn't drown in? Can't she be allowed to show her personality at all? Her Czardas LP from a few seasons ago was much better and more fun than anything she's skating to this year. And I absolutely LOVE Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C, but it's not the right music for Mao. Better left to someone like Jeff Buttle who used it for his SP years ago.
 

Jasper

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
I think that the LP music can be less scary in a different version, by eliminating the trenbling effects that sound threatening, IMO. Piano version would have been nicer.

But I just could not expect her go back to any of the programs made by Nichol. That would be bad for their relationship.

I agree. Prelude in C Sharp Minor, or "Bells of Moscow" as some people like to call it, is more beautiful and hypnotizing in a just piano version. There's something about the full orchestra, especially paired with Mao's dress, that is "dirgy" and dry and unpleasant! Get rid of the dirge!

Meanwhile, Yu Na seems to really be inspired by her music. She may actually like it! What a crazy notion that a young lady skater may actually enjoy her music.
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Mao needs to fire Tarasova ASAP!! She has gotten worse since she went to her. I really enjoy her skating and she was magical when she was with Artunian.
She needs a full time coach or coaches!
 

Okami

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Lumi's right. :)

Concerning the SP, in the summer there was an article which said that Mao originally had picked different music, but TAT suggested using Masquerade Waltz again. Mao was nervous about using the same music 2 years in a row, but when she heard the flute version arranged by J.Galway she agreed to use it. The program was supposed to "express the joy of a young girl going to a ball for the very first time".

A few days before TEB another newspaper mentioned that Mao's EX, "Caprice", was originally the music Mao chose as her SP. But TAT felt that it lacked something - she gave Mao a fan and decided that it works better as an EX program. She suggested using "Masquerade Waltz":
Tarasova: I chose this music, because it is the Olympic season. This music touches and grabs many people's heart. We will use this music throughout the season.

Concerning the LP, TAT gave Mao two pieces of music to chose from (the second one was not identified by the media). Mao felt that "Bells of Moscow" was too gloomy and dull and picked the other piece of music. But again, when Mao & TAT started going over the choreo TAT suggested that Bell suits Mao more for the Olympic year. Mao said that she eventually started appreciating the music for its rhythm and the feeling of "something bubbling from the underground". She also said that the program is the representation of Tatiana's power.
Tarasova: I always dreamed of using "Bell" in skating. This piece is tragic, dramatic, and emotional.

Source:
Posts by hastaluego06 (page 3) and Mika (page 2)
http://maoasada.logu2.com/mao-chat-f5/mao-news-2009-10-olympic-season-t509-15.htm
+Youtube interviews with Mao & TAT, but there are hundreds of them, so it might take me a while before I locate the right one. :)
 

Jasper

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Thanks for those quotes, Okami. Mao is really whipped by Tarasova. Sad to see a skater with such little choice in her skating career. I don't think you'd see the diva men get controlled by their coaches or choreographers quite like that. Can you imagine Johnny Weir being told what to skate to and not liking it but doing it anyway?
 

herro

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Ooooh boy, where do I start about Tarasova?

She may be a famous coach, but she is doing absolutely nothing for Mao. Wait, I take that back. She's making Mao skate worse.

I'm not sure what she is like off the ice, but she seems way too intense as a coach too. Intense in a bad way. She thinks the triple axel is EVERYTHING, which is SO not true. In an interview (I forget which), she was expressing her indignation at why Yuna is winning all these competitions when she doesn't even have a triple axel. She said that a woman with a triple axel should win.

I don't know, I'm not a big fan of Tarasova at all. What's with her imposing two dark pieces on Mao when it clearly doesn't suit her? Okay, maybe the SP is passable, but definitely not the LP.

UGH.

-edit- Haha, so Khachaturian is not Russian. Oh goodness me, I apologize for my ignorance. But you get my point about the music though.
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I don't know, I'm not a big fan of Tarasova at all. What's with her imposing two dark pieces both by Russian composers (please correct me if I'm wrong) on Mao when it clearly doesn't suit her? Okay, maybe the SP is passable, but definitely not the LP.

UGH.

Aram Khachaturian, who composed the Masquerade Waltz, is actually Armenian.
 

zartian

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
I don't think TAT is a bad coach. She is definitely one of the best coaches, but her style simply doesn't go along with Mao's. TAT's choreo style is generally classical and drammatic which is not Mao's.

In terms of choreo, I basically do not like the idea that one skater has the some choreographer for both of her programs. It would be OK if the skater is mediocre. But from top-level skaters, we audience want something more, more artistry, more versatility.

But both Mao and Yuna, our top skaters, each have the same choreographer for both their programs. However excellent a choreographer/skater is, there will be limits of expression for one skater to deliver so versatilely both her SP and LP programs of the same style of choreography. If the music is of similar genre, it will be even more difficult to be versatile. Both the SP and LP of Mao's are by Russian composers in almost the same period. Thus the style of music is more similar than, let say, Mazart, Beethoven. Both the SP and LP of Yuna's are the 20th century contemporary music, which makes both her programs look rather similar. That's why some folks here say that they cannot find much difference between either programs of both Mao's and Yuna's.

I personally thought it would had been better for one of Mao's to be chreo'd by Lori or David...and one of Yuna's by Shae-Lynn or Tom Dickson (he has done a terrific job for her Roxanne). or even TAT. Well, it's too late.... I just wish them to consider this after the Olympics, if they still stick around.. .:disapp:

[It is really hard to express my opinion in English..b/c it's not my native language:banging:]
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I

If the music is of similar genre, it will be even more difficult to be versatile. Both the SP and LP of Mao's are by Russian composers in almost the same period. Thus the style of music is more similar than, let say, Mazart, Beethoven. Both the SP and LP of Yuna's are the 20th century contemporary music, which makes both her programs look rather similar.


As I pointed out earlier, Khachaturian (who composed Masquerade Waltz) was not Russian; he is Armenian. Rachmaninoff was indeed Russian. However, although the span of their lives overlap (Rachmaninoff lived from 1873-1943; Khachaturian lived from 1903-1978), their styles of music, and the stylistic eras they belong to, are quite different. Rachmaninoff was a composer influenced by the old Russian school of the late Romantic period in music, a distinct artistic movement that is associated with the 19th century. Khachaturian, on the other hand, was firmly entrenched in the 20th-century period and influenced by Armenian folk melodies. Just listen to a wider range of their works--they both have very distinct styles.

And please don't get me started on the vast, yawning stylistic differences between Gershwin and the people who wrote James Bond soundtrack.

What I'm trying to say is that if the programs look similar, it's probably due to the choreography. Or perhaps how the skater chooses to express the music.


PS. Mozart and Beethoven both belonged in the Classical period of music, though one could argue that Beethoven could also be considered a composer of the early Romantic period.
 
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zartian

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
As I pointed out earlier, Khachaturian (who composed Masquerade Waltz) was not Russian; he is Armenian. Rachmaninoff was indeed Russian. However, although the span of their lives overlap (Rachmaninoff lived from 1873-1943; Khachaturian lived from 1903-1978), their styles of music, and the stylistic eras they belong to, are quite different. Rachmaninoff was a composer influenced by the old Russian school of the late Romantic period in music, a distinct artistic movement that is associated with the 19th century. Khachaturian, on the other hand, was firmly entrenched in the 20th-century period and influenced by Armenian folk melodies. Just listen to a wider range of their works--they both have very distinct styles.

And please don't get me started on the vast, yawning stylistic differences between Gershwin and the people who wrote James Bond soundtrack.

If you divide the periods and styles of two composers meticulously, it will be endless.. and there will be logically no two music "similar" to each other. However, most of audience do not have such meticulous hearing of music as you do.;)



PS. Mozart and Beethoven both belonged in the Classical period of music, though one could argue that Beethoven could also be considered a composer of the early Romantic period.[/SIZE]

I was talking about the difference b/w Khachaturian (or Rachmaninoff) and Mozart/Beethoven, not b/w Mozart and Beethoven.


What I'm trying to say is that if the programs look similar, it's probably due to the choreography. Or perhaps how the skater chooses to express the music.

I agree.:)
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't think TAT is a bad coach. She is definitely one of the best coaches, but her style simply doesn't go along with Mao's. TAT's choreo style is generally classical and drammatic which is not Mao's.

Don't mean this as a diss on TT, but isn't part of being a great coach being able to look at your skater's style and adapt your style accordingly to what fits that particular skater? Rather than trying to impose "your" style on the skater regardless of whether it suits her or not.

Or, maybe it's on Asada for not being versatile enough to grasp that song. I think the best analogy is a T-shirt that's about a couple of sizes too large- instead of wearing it, it wears you.
 

zartian

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Don't mean this as a diss on TT, but isn't part of being a great coach being able to look at your skater's style and adapt your style accordingly to what fits that particular skater? Rather than trying to impose "your" style on the skater regardless of whether it suits her or not.

Or, maybe it's on Asada for not being versatile enough to grasp that song. I think the best analogy is a T-shirt that's about a couple of sizes too large- instead of wearing it, it wears you.


You are right! But don't you think TAT did a terrific job on Mao's Paganini? This shows that if only the style of music is different, it has completely different effect on the same skater by the same choreographer.
 

astimegoesby

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
every commentator on tv basically says the same... that the music and the style doesn't fit mao.

I think Kurt Browning put it best during the CBC TEB broadcast yesterday. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to record Mao's marks, so I can't quote him exactly, but Kurt made a lot of remarks very similar to those already posted in this thread during Mao's performance. Just before Mao received her marks, Brenda or Tracy said something along the lines of, "Don't be shy, Kurt. Tell us how you really feel about Mao's music." And Kurt's response was something along the lines of he'd like the music just fine if it was playing in the background while the vampires awoke from the dead. :p

That being said, I have to agree with Kurt and virtually everyone else here that Mao's new LP doesn't suit her at all. I also thought her "Masquerade Waltz" LP last year was too front-loaded with both 3-axels and most of the other difficult jumps at the beginning and not much left at the end...but at least during that program, the joy came back to Mao's face during the final footwork sequence. I can't say the same for this LP. :(

I'm also afraid Mao's making the same mistake as Brian Joubert in that she seems to be concentrating too much on landing those 3-axels to the detriment of the rest of her program. Putting so much emphasis on landing two or three quads hasn't helped Brian too much during the past few years, and it doesn't seem to be helping Mao much, either.

I wish Mao had at least kept Lori Nichol as her choreographer as I liked last season's SP much more than her long, but regardless of who Mao has as her coach or choreographer, I can't begin to imagine the pressure she must be under this season! :eek:
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
You are right! But don't you think TAT did a terrific job on Mao's Paganini? This shows that if only the style of music is different, it has completely different effect on the same skater by the same choreographer.

Which raises the eternal question: why are Mao Asada's exhibition programs by Tarasova so brilliant, but her competitive programs are...not? On a more superficial note, I even like the exhibition costumes more than the competitive ones.
 
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