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Thread: Brian Joubert should NOT win the Olympics with his current LP

  1. #61
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post
    But surely you will agree that the sit spin has improved. His spins in general are more centered, for example.
    Good point about his sit spin. When I heard he was coming back my first thought was that he would have to get his butt down His overall positions in his sit spin look a little painful/contorted compared to the clean lines of Lysacek or Chan for example. Plushenko has made noticeable improvement though!

  2. #62
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    1. Is Joubert actually capable of skating this routine to it's full potential? I've heard in the past of skaters stripping out choreography in their routines if they potentially can't do it due to injury, etc (I think that's true of Elvis Stoijko later in his career. And I also heard Bourne and Kraatz changed their 1997/98 OD to something less difficult). Given how many people are stating "well, it's good choreography for him," (as if having expectations of figure skaters to have good choreography is too much for him), what are the odds of him keeping the choreography as complex as it is (especially if now his jumps suffer)?

    2. Joubert is a "jumps" skater, everyone tends to say. But then why is his GOE consistently on the lower end? In the 2009 short at worlds, he got -1 for jump GOE in total (aka, he lost one point of the base value), earning a total of 27 points. Lysacek, Chan, Kozuka, Contesti, Oda and Mroz all earned a higher cumulative GOE with Verner scoring the same (though the difficulty of the jumps works in Joubert's favour - only Chan outscored him in total for points for jumps - interesting to note that Joubert actually won the technical on the basis of spins and steps).

    3. I won't deny that I share Jasper's disdain for Joubert as a skater and competitor, but yeah - stating he shouldn't win is definitely prejudging. That said, I hope he's not deserving of winning - I doubt that this program well skated will do much for me and if he deserves to win, that'll mean skaters I enjoy more will have skated less well, and that won't be a good night for me.

  3. #63
    Eville Eastern Bloc Poster
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    Yes, the title of Jasper's thread wasn't PC at all, and I certainly disagree. Otoh I freely admit: If he would've replaced the name "Brian Joubert" with "Lysacek" I'd be with him, 1000 %! And not only one single program ... L. shouldn't win with anything on ANY event at all (anymore) ... he's the most awful thing on ice I've watched for years .....
    Last edited by Germanice; 10-22-2009 at 02:19 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    1. Is Joubert actually capable of skating this routine to it's full potential? I've heard in the past of skaters stripping out choreography in their routines if they potentially can't do it due to injury, etc (I think that's true of Elvis Stoijko later in his career. And I also heard Bourne and Kraatz changed their 1997/98 OD to something less difficult). Given how many people are stating "well, it's good choreography for him," (as if having expectations of figure skaters to have good choreography is too much for him), what are the odds of him keeping the choreography as complex as it is (especially if now his jumps suffer)?

    2. Joubert is a "jumps" skater, everyone tends to say. But then why is his GOE consistently on the lower end? In the 2009 short at worlds, he got -1 for jump GOE in total (aka, he lost one point of the base value), earning a total of 27 points. Lysacek, Chan, Kozuka, Contesti, Oda and Mroz all earned a higher cumulative GOE with Verner scoring the same (though the difficulty of the jumps works in Joubert's favour - only Chan outscored him in total for points for jumps - interesting to note that Joubert actually won the technical on the basis of spins and steps).

    3. I won't deny that I share Jasper's disdain for Joubert as a skater and competitor, but yeah - stating he shouldn't win is definitely prejudging. That said, I hope he's not deserving of winning - I doubt that this program well skated will do much for me and if he deserves to win, that'll mean skaters I enjoy more will have skated less well, and that won't be a good night for me.
    I agree with everything you said, I feel the same. If he wins, I will be disappointed, but I will accept it as long as all the others do not step up.
    I remember last year, when Joubert was skating to last of Mohicans, a program that was given to him by Platov, he was not able to perform all the choreography and he totally stripped it out. I am wondering whether it will be the same with current LP if the jumps do not work.

    And when it comes to Joubert jumps - they used to be pretty. But now, even when he lands them, there are nothing to write home about. I would even say that they became ugly. No height, scratchy landings, no flow out of the jumps. Therefore I would not call his jumps his strength any more. Then, to me he does not have much more to offer.

  5. #65
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    That's a little harsh. TEB was clearly not a good competition for him, but he still has the capability for great jumps. His Lutz and Flip are amazing normally.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    That's a little harsh. TEB was clearly not a good competition for him, but he still has the capability for great jumps. His Lutz and Flip are amazing normally.
    I did not refer to TEB only. For the whole last seasons his jumps seemed to lose the quality most of the times.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    All those three guys you mentioned. They would make up the most horrid olympic podium ever. it would be an absolute nightmare.
    I agree 100%. I think they should just give Lambiel gold, silver, and bronze, regardless of how he skates, and let the rest of the men fight for pewter.

    Three artists on the podium is what I'm hoping for, i.e. Lambiel, Abbott, and Takahashi.

  8. #68
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    All those three guys you mentioned. They would make up the most horrid olympic podium ever. it would be an absolute nightmare.
    I agree, but sadly, I could easily see it happening that way. I will not be a happy camper at all either. If it were to happen, it may turn me away from mens' figure skating forever!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindertotenlieder View Post
    I agree 100%. I think they should just give Lambiel gold, silver, and bronze, regardless of how he skates, and let the rest of the men fight for pewter.

    Three artists on the podium is what I'm hoping for, i.e. Lambiel, Abbott, and Takahashi.
    Oh, how I love the idea of that podium!!!

  10. #70
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    I agree with those who decry the unfortunate, skater-bashing title of this thread. Jasper seems less against the current form of Brian's programmes than he is against Brian himself.

    As for preferences for different types of skating, there is an old saying: "One man's meat is another man's poison.".

    Each skater presents their own point of view on the ice, supplemented by the points of view of the choreographer(s) and coach who are supporting him. Were it otherwise, the presentations would soon become boringly repetitive, stylistically.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    All those three guys you mentioned. They would make up the most horrid olympic podium ever. it would be an absolute nightmare.
    Those three on the podium are perfectly good with me as long as Joubert and Plushenko are in front of Lysacek which means that Joubert or Plushenko gets the Olympic gold. If either one of them gets the gold, I would be pretty generous.

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