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Thread: Jennifer Kirk's review on TEB

  1. #16
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gourry View Post
    Actually it's Yuna who did 3S directly after spirals and had some problem.
    The one Mao did after spirals was 3T.
    Mao did the 3Sal after her Spiral as well:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNzyQ2KdSLs

    She lands it here (this is also the performance where she landed both 3Axels cleanly), but then after this competition she started doing the 3Loop instead.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Mao did the 3Sal after her Spiral as well:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNzyQ2KdSLs

    She lands it here (this is also the performance where she landed both 3Axels cleanly), but then after this competition she started doing the 3Loop instead.
    You are right. I forgot she tried various layout last season. And I don't know why I thought it was 3T at worlds.
    Anyway, my bad!

  3. #18
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    Well just limit the 2A back to only two. I for one, sick of seeing all the 2A poping up every where from every skaters.

    To be hornest the only current top skaters with complete set of triple are: Miki, Joannie and Calrolina.

    Yuna is banking too much on her 2A as safety net and Mao is banking on her 3A as cushion.

  4. #19
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    In terms of edge errors marked in the protocols, what is the difference between "e" and "!" ...? I apologize if this is a stupid question. I think when I looked at the TEB protocols, I noticed Nakano with a ! and Asada with an e.

  5. #20
    Down With It
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    Regardless of things, I'm just looking for The Great Equalizer to rear its head.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen3000 View Post
    Well just limit the 2A back to only two. I for one, sick of seeing all the 2A poping up every where from every skaters.

    To be hornest the only current top skaters with complete set of triple are: Miki, Joannie and Calrolina.

    Yuna is banking too much on her 2A as safety net and Mao is banking on her 3A as cushion.
    That's what I appreciate about Miki and Joannie. Their jumps look so solid and they attempt them all in their programs.

    I don't understand why Miki and Mao are so often downgraded on their 3Loops in combination jumps, to the point where they don't attempt them anymore in competition. I feel like Miki always got so much height on her 3Loop as the second part of a combination and it always seemed really complete to me. Are the judges or tech specialists saying that she (and Mao) is cheating the 3Loop jump on the front end instead of on the landing? But that doesn't make sense. I always loved watching Miki and Mao with their huge 3?-3Loop combos, although there is also something very special about Yu Na with her 3F-3T and 3L-3T because she gets such air and distance.

    And at least Yu Na goes for the very difficult 2A-3T combination in her programs which is 5.5 revolutions all at once. Carolina was never consistent at all with the 2A-3T. Mao should go for a solo 3A, ditch the planned second one, and add a 2A-3T later in her program to match Yu Na.
    Last edited by Jasper; 10-20-2009 at 10:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
    In terms of edge errors marked in the protocols, what is the difference between "e" and "!" ...? I apologize if this is a stupid question. I think when I looked at the TEB protocols, I noticed Nakano with a ! and Asada with an e.
    To be brief, 'e' means your edge is totally, obviously wrong while '!' means it's questionable.
    Nakano occasionally gets '!' on both flip and lutz. Mao used to flutz severely and got 'e' during 2007-2008 season and last season '!' or 'e'.

    By the way, I didn't notice Mao got an 'e' this time. Where did she get 'e'? She didn't attempt lutz here. Did she get 'e' on her flip?? I think the only lady who got 'e' is Caroline.
    Last edited by gourry; 10-21-2009 at 12:39 AM.

  8. #23
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Witt said it best (paraphrasing) you can't win the gold with the SP but you can sure lose it.
    .
    I don't think she is the one that came up with it, though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gourry View Post
    To be brief, 'e' means your edge is totally, obviously wrong while '!' means it's questionable.
    Nakano occasionally gets '!' on both flip and lutz. Mao used to flutz severely and got 'e' during 2007-2008 season and last season '!' or 'e'.

    By the way, I didn't notice Mao got an 'e' this time. Where did she get 'e'? She didn't attempt lutz here. Did she get 'e' on her flip?? I think the only lady who got 'e' is Caroline.
    Yeah sorry, I was thinking of past protocols with Mao.

  10. #25
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I don't think she is the one that came up with it, though...
    I'm pretty sure she wasn't the first, but I do remember her saying it in 1992 after the ladies SP and it fits her competitive philosophy so wonderfully I can't imagine it being quite so effective from any other competitor/coach/announcer.

  11. #26
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    In reply to Katarina Witt saying way back when the old 6.0 system was being used (i.e. you can't win the gold with SP but you can sure lose it).

    My response:

    B.S. Nowadays in the 21st century, in this new COP system, Yuna Kim just proved to all that you most definitely can W-I-N gold with the SP!

    And if you don't bring your A-game to the table in the SP, there's nothing you can do in the LP that's going to help when the leader is ahead by 20-50+ points. It's over. Finito!

    And that's JMHO.

  12. #27
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    Nowadays in the 21st century, in this new COP system, Yuna Kim just proved to all that you most definitely can W-I-N gold with the SP!

    And if you don't bring your A-game to the table in the SP, there's nothing you can do in the LP that's going to help when the leader is ahead by 20-50+ points. It's over. Finito!
    Wrong. The only reason Kim was ahead by that much was that her competitors all made mistakes and she skated extremely well. Basically, you cannot win an event in the SP; what can happen is that your competitors may lose an event in the SP. But there is no way any skater can amass more than a 10-point lead in the SP barring mistakes by the rest of the field, and in the LP, that sort of lead can certainly be lost. Also, there is absolutely no scenario in which he skater can lead by 50 points after the SP over their nearest competitor at the elite level. People consistently write off skaters after bad SPs only to be surprised.

    The one exception I can think of is Plushy at Torino, mainly because he was very consistent, the other skaters seemed to be scared of him and the judges were overmarking him; so yes, he won it in the SP.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Yu-Na is not "better" than Mao. They are both amazingly talented, in different ways.

    One fact does remain, however. Mao needs the Triple Axel to defeat Yu-Na. This is true.

    I'm not sure why you are trying to turn that fact into a slight against Mao, though, Kimmie Fan. Since when is being able to do the Triple Axel an "excuse"? It is a very difficult element that Yu-Na can not do. Yu-Na also never does the Triple Loop because that jump gives her major problems. Yu-Na is actually rather fortunate that, under CoP, her problems with the Triple Loop don't really matter. She can just do a Double Axel and barely lose any points.
    Who can say now that Yuna is "NOT" better than any ladies on ice?
    Actually Yuna's 3lutz-3toeloop is stronger than any other ladies jumps including Mao's 3Axel.

  14. #29
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    hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post

    Originally Posted by shallwedansu
    And I would hardly call a 3-3 simple. Which is the feeling I get from people sometimes when they pit Yu-Na's layout vs Mao's layout. Yu-Na does the same, simple 3-3 she always does, but Mao goes for the more difficult 3A. Not in exactly those words, but more or less.

    I wouldn't, either, but look what Jenny's suggesting for Mao:

    If I were Asada, I would instead work on my triple flip-triple loop combination and the consistency and takeoff on my triple lutz. Even if it means doing a simpler triple flip-double toe loop and taking a triple loop out of footwork in her short program, Asada must skate a clean short if she wants to keep herself in contention heading into the long program.
    .
    I think you misread what Jenny said. She said "a simpler triple flip-double toe loop" not "a simpler triple flip-triple toe loop." I watched the whole competition, and I didn't see many female skaters who could land perfect triple-triple combination. Also, Triple lutz-Triple toe combination has higher base points than triple axel-double toe combination. So how could it be simple and easy???

    Mao is a great skater, but it's about time her fans and Japanese media stop praising her to be technically superior to Yuna because Mas has to realize that she needs to come up with a better plan to improve herself in competitions. It really makes me upset to see her trying 3A, and fall miserably on the ice.... :(
    Last edited by figurejennah; 10-21-2009 at 05:24 AM.

  15. #30
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by figurejennah View Post
    I think you misread what Jenny said. She said "a simpler triple flip-double toe loop" not "a simpler triple flip-triple toe loop." I watched the whole competition, and I didn't see many female skaters who could land perfect triple-triple combination. Also, Triple lutz-Triple toe combination has higher base points than triple axel-double toe combination. So how could it be simple and easy???
    No, I read Jenny correctly - you seem to have misunderstood my argument. I take issue with Jenny advocating that Mao try a simpler jump layout; I think Mao needs time and training to get a difficult layout right instead of going to triple-doubles just because she's not always perfect. Jenny Kirk, as a 6.0 skater, doesn't seem to realize that in many cases, losing the base value of a 3-3 is probably worse than going for it and making mistakes.

    I admire Mao for taking risks with her skating - a sentiment that has nothing to do with my views on Yu-Na (which are very positive, I assure you).

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