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Thread: Men Short Program

  1. #196
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    Rustiness, my @#$!!!! and judges agree. If not for Plushenko, we might soon have men and women competitions combined. Welcome back, Plushy!!!!!!!

  2. #197
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    regarding evgeni's spins, i'm wondering if that supposed cannonball sit-spin was not really the spin he was trying? maybe he wished to keep his foot off of his knee instead of on it? new style perhaps? lol. it was lower than the usual such sit-spins and he held his foot the whole time.... so i think it wasn't supposed to be a conventional cannonball sit-spin.

  3. #198
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    I hope the Plushenko apologists don't drive me mad this season.

    His performance here was not a great one. He did an excellent Quad-Triple combination and an excellent Triple Axel. He is showing great promise of returning to the level he used to skate at, but there was really nothing else to be excited about in this performance. He was overscored because of his name and there are a lot of things he should be working on in his skating.

    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I don't know about placement, but I was left feeling underwhelmed by Evgeni also. Perhaps rustiness or being out of training for a while left him a bit sapped for energy during his step sequence (so it's understandable)...but he's still doing that thing where he packs all his jumps in at the very beginning of the program with deadspace in between them.

    With nothing left to prove, and no missing golds, I wish he'd found more motivation to experiment artistically rather than doing the tactical thing.
    Completely agree.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post

    His performance here was not a great one. He did an excellent Quad-Triple combination and an excellent Triple Axel. He is showing great promise of returning to the level he used to skate at, but there was really nothing else to be excited about in this performance. He was overscored because of his name and there are a lot of things he should be working on in his skating.

    Am curious - if he had done a decent 3L what would his score have been today? Pretty close to his score in Torino?
    He is obviously doing more than enough to score very well under Cop vision of skating - whether it was the '06 version or today's version.
    Why should he bother to change, other than cleaning up a few things here and there when he is the apparently the ideal skater of the new scoring system?
    This can be considered a rhetorical post as I do not want to sound like a big wiseguy. But if you are not happy with his score and the placements today you need to be honest and I think it goes past reputation alone.
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-23-2009 at 09:10 PM.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    BTW, Kozuka deserved to win the SP. This guy is amazing. He is currently quite underrated in terms of his artistry. I got chills during his SP.

    The Japanese have the strongest 3-man lineup, IMO. One of the best 3-man lineups ever, in fact. Takahashi, Kozuka, and Oda all have the ability to be World Champions.

    The same can be said of Abbott, Weir, and Lysacek on the American side...but they aren't as consistent overall.

    I was so upset by Kozuka's marks that it ruined my day. Not the fact that they put him second, I was expecting that, but to give a 6.75 edge to Plushy that is a madness. He was trumped in LA as well, now this is his second year in a row, I cannot get it. Someone here says he is ranked 3rd in Japan, what the hell that has to do with it? This is a sport not a monarchy where you have to wait your turn to get on the throne. Have we not seen sweeps before?


    Yes, Japan has the strongest line-up in men's skating right now and the judges should treat them fairly if they compete well.
    I looked at his face and he clearly was dissapointed by his marks. If you look at the breakdown, he was especially hit in Interpretation and performance. I would like to hear those judges, what was he supposed to do better to increase his marks on such a rock piece?

  6. #201
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    There are clips of interviews but almost all of them are in Russian, however, there's a video here of Johnny after the SP, but well since it's Johnny the first half is in Russian but then he switches to English

    http://fsnews.ru/index-m-single-id-732.html

  7. #202
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    I've heard people who've seen Kozuka live complain about his presence on the ice. I was slightly underwhelmed by this short program, truth be told. I liked it better than Plushenko's program as a program, but it's hard not to be impressed by Plushenko's boldness on the ice. Kozuka comes off as timid by comparison, and I could definitely see that affecting the interpretation and p/e.

  8. #203
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    Wow, I just read the icenetwork article about the Men's short and I can't believe that for the first time I agree with everything on it

    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

    Oh and Kozuka got only level 2 on his step sequences ( I totally disagree with that) which I believe made more damage to him than his PCS which by the way were higher than Oda's, the supposed #2 japanese skater.
    Last edited by SamuraiKike; 10-23-2009 at 09:52 PM.

  9. #204
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Am curious - if he had done a decent 3L what would his score have been today? Pretty close to his score in Torino?
    He is obviously doing more than enough to score very well under Cop vision of skating - whether it was the '06 version or today's version.
    Why should he bother to change, other than cleaning up a few things here and there when he is the apparently the ideal skater of the new scoring system?
    This can be considered a rhetorical post as I do not want to sound like a big wiseguy. But if you are not happy with his score and the placements today you need to be honest and I think it goes past reputation alone.
    I know you are not addressing me but I wanted to say a few things (btw, I find myself agreeing with many of your posts.)

    Plushenko is one of my favourite male skaters, and I admire him a lot. In 2002 I preferred Yagudin just a bit, but it seems that Plushy's passion for skating has proven more enduring, as shown by his return and his collaboration with Edvin Marton and their famous shows.

    I didn't look at the scores or analyze them, so I'm not interesting in disputing or affirming the placements. But I guess I had high expectations of Plushenko, and since he really has nothing more to achieve on his resume, I would love to see him expand and grow because winning tournaments should no longer be his endpoint. I see him as one of the few skaters these days that can push athletic limits and artistic depths, so why settle for something that just wins? :frown2: I love him!

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    BTW, Kozuka deserved to win the SP. This guy is amazing. He is currently quite underrated in terms of his artistry. I got chills during his SP.
    I love Kozuka, but I respectfully disagree.

    His footwork was a bit sluggish, jumps looked a little loose, and more than that, I don't buy him as a hard rocker at all! To each his own, I guess. I loved his "Take Five" SP, but this one leaves me meh.

    Plushy, on the other hand, compelled me to watch him from start to finish, couldn't take my eyes off of him. I was all ready to laugh at his sit spins, but I've never seen such good ones out of him. Huge improvement. He just commands the ice in a way no one else does.

  11. #206
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    In 2002 I preferred Yagudin just a bit, but it seems that Plushy's passion for skating has proven more enduring, as shown by his return and his collaboration with Edvin Marton and their famous shows.
    This seems a bit unfair. I have the impression Alexei would give years off his life to return to competitive skating, but his beaten-up body won't let him. He seems to skate in shows whenever he can. I can't believe his passion for skating is less than Plushenko's.

    Which is not to deny that Plushenko's return in such great shape is amazing.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    Plushenko is one of my favourite male skaters, and I admire him a lot. In 2002 I preferred Yagudin just a bit, but it seems that Plushy's passion for skating has proven more enduring, as shown by his return and his collaboration with Edvin Marton and their famous shows.
    OT - Actually, it's Plushenko's hip that has proven more enduring. Yagudin wrecked his body trying to skate competitively, and was forced to retire - though he continues to do many shows; I for one am happy none of his work is with Marton . Yagudin actually had hip replacement surgery a couple of years ago in the hope of getting back to a higher level of skating. In the end he had to face the fact that it would not happen. But at least his career, while cut short, was a really amazing one.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 10-24-2009 at 02:01 AM.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I don't know about placement, but I was left feeling underwhelmed by Evgeni also. Perhaps rustiness or being out of training for a while left him a bit sapped for energy during his step sequence (so it's understandable)...but he's still doing that thing where he packs all his jumps in at the very beginning of the program with deadspace in between them.

    With nothing left to prove, and no missing golds, I wish he'd found more motivation to experiment artistically rather than doing the tactical thing.

    Kozuka - what a charming performance.
    A question: would that possibly have anything to do with the current state of the Russian figure skating, at least the men's singles?

    Since Plushy's Torino gold, they've been hanging on for a dear life, and maybe Russian Federation is hoping for big results from him again as long as he's coming back.
    So why change something that worked so well.

    Ah well. Just my two cents.
    Regardless, it's good to see him back on the ice, and I see that his hair style has also not changed.

  14. #209
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    I think it's fruitless at this point to demand that Plushenko overhaul his concept of artistry and choreography. I could do without the Marton music as well, but it seems to make him comfortable. And he scores big points anyway, so why change a winning strategy? Really liked his costume, though. The two first jumping passes were crazy, a class apart from most of the other men IMO. As for his PCS, I think that he definitely deserves his high marks for Skating Skills and Performance. Marking for Transitions is probably a bit iffy. It's the Yu-Na Kim effect, I guess: He deserves his lead but should probably have two or three points less.

    Kozuka is a very admirable skater, but seems to skate "small". He cannot let loose and really perform to an audience. The judges seem to expect that from the best skaters. I thought his music selection for this year's SP is less than stellar as well. I like the smoothness and quietness of his skating, but he should perhaps try to skate with more conviction. Eh, I can't really describe what I think is missing from his skating for me...perhaps it's just nervousness and the knowledge that he's not his country's number one and will be judged accordingly.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    I agree with Plushy's technical edge, although the double lutz should have weighted more than it did. But his PCS's marks are outrageous in comparison with Kozuka. Poor Taka is nailed iespecially on the Interpretation and performance mark.,You tell me how much better he can interpret that music for hheaven's sake??
    This is actually something that bothers me a lot - some skaters are shy and a bit introvertic, but if they started skating like a showman, it just simply does not work, because this does not fit their personality. This is Takahiko Kozuka - he interprets the music with his body and skating skills. I prefer him this way rather than he starts learning posing or forcing fake face expression etc. A pity is, that such style gets rewarded, whereas something genuine but not very 'catchy' does not. And really, if you watch a performance live, how close do you have to sit to see face expression?? First few rows maybe??

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