# Thread: Men Free Program

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Originally Posted by Mathman
To me, that is the crux of the matter. Your post raises two issues. First, subjectivity is not at all the same as sampling error. One can mitigate sampling error (statistical “noise”) by expanding the panel of judges, for instance. But that will not address the issue of subjectivity.

The second problem is this. Although there are well-established statistical methods for measuring the degree of agreement among judges, I do not see any reliable and robust statistical method for deciding whether the judges are in agreement with objective criteria. The only thing I can think of is to ask some super judges what they think of the judging, then ask some super-duper judges what they think of the super judges' evaluation of the judges. This kind of expert oversight, however, has nothing to do with statistics, that I can see.
Ahh...I see what you are saying. One can measure degrees of precision (agreement between judges), but not accuracy (how well the judging fits what is factually objective...because we cannot strictly determine that.)

However, I still maintain that in a judged discipline/sport, the agreement between experts is the best that we can go by, and for its intents and purposes, can be considered the "objective" standard. If one wishes to make a theoretical "population mean of expert judgements" (or your example of superduper judges) and set that as the objective standard, then in theory it follows that a larger judging panel can mitigate individual judges' biases (the ultimate example of subjectivity) better than a smaller panel.

Thus, to me, a statistical problem remains (and so I believe it is important to not let the panel of judges shrink further to say, 3). How can it not be so? You can apply statistical analyses to graded criteria, even if subjectivity has a role in defining part of them.

2. 0
Originally Posted by jennylovskt
As of pelvic thrust, I was astonished to see that, especially Joubert has done it last year and is continuing to do it this year. Joubert doesn't have to change but Plushenko must change, or it will make people laugh at every competition. Especially if both of them get Olympics gold and silver medals respectively.
Well, there are some differences:
1. Joubert didn't claim to be skating a tango.
2. Did you see the pic Hsuhs linked to earlier? Joubert never did that.
3. Joubert is much more attractive.

And you know what? I still hated those stupid pelvic thrusts. I hope Albena puts her foot down and makes him change it, thus assuring that the skate gods will smile upon Brian.

3. 0
I won't deny that Plushy is a great skater but I never enjoy watching him because he comes across as so arrogant. He may have every right to be arrogant but for me it really detracts from his performances. I know that Joubert does the pelvic thrusting and fist pumping too but Joubert has something vulnerable about him that allows me to forgive it somehow. There's nothing vulnerable about Plush.

4. 0
Originally Posted by Buttercup
3. Joubert is much more attractive.
Hey, eye of the beholder! What's so good-lookijng about this?

http://www.gala.fr/var/gal/storage/i..._reference.jpg

OK, nevermind.

5. 0
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Joubert never did that.
I believe no other male skater has done something like that so far. Which means Zhenya is rather innovative and is moving this sport in a new direction. More kudos to him!

Originally Posted by Mathman
Hey, eye of the beholder! What's so good-lookijng about this?

http://www.gala.fr/var/gal/storage/i..._reference.jpg
Where's that image 'dressed in white socks only' of Brian's, when you need it.

6. 0
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Well, there are some differences:
1. Joubert didn't claim to be skating a tango.
2. Did you see the pic Hsuhs linked to earlier? Joubert never did that.
3. Joubert is much more attractive.

And you know what? I still hated those stupid pelvic thrusts. I hope Albena puts her foot down and makes him change it, thus assuring that the skate gods will smile upon Brian.
I didn't see this. Can't defend him on this one. Who took this ugly picture which has ruined my otherwise warm fuzzy and up beating weekend?! I hope Plushenko's people read this site and change it.

I have just finished watching the NBC broadcast about this competition, and wanted to post my feeling with the excitement of Plushenko's strong performance. Now I don't feel like it any more. Hsuhs and B, you are responsible for this.

Regarding to the rest of the men's skating:

I like Kozuka very much. He has such expressive hands and gestures. But his skating seems a little lack of speed which has taken the excitement off of his skating a lot.

It's the first time I have seen Artem skates. He is fine but I don't feel much for it. There is a little messy feeling to see his long, puffy hair with the super high collar.

I don't like Mroz's jumps when he turns in the air. It's strange that his some gestures and movements have reminded me of Jeffrey Buttle. I know it seems totally outragous comparason but it happened to me. Maybe it's because of his choreography. I don't know. But I like this choreography very much! I hope he could do well at the US Nationals.

Johnny's LP didn't do much to me this time. It's an old Johnny program with worse jumps. I feel so bad for him, and hope he could focus and do better later in the season. Or maybe he was too focusing? I don't know.

7. 0
Originally Posted by jennylovskt

Johnny's LP didn't do much to me this time. It's an old Johnny program with worse jumps. I feel so bad for him, and hope he could focus and do better later in the season. Or maybe he was too focusing? I don't know.
I actually really liked the program. It was the first time in years I actually felt an emotional connection from him, he actually showed some passion there. Of course the jumps were a mess, but he did do the triple axel at the very end. Great program...i love that second peice of music he used. I know if is from something else, but can't remember who used this.

8. 0
Yep, I still really enjoy Borodulin. And not just because of that great last name. There is something daring and powerful to him, that Lutai, Dobrin, Griazev, Voronov & Co. never had and still don't have.

I also think it's nice that the two impressive guys from Junior Worlds 2008, Rippon and Borodulin, both snatch a Bronze in their first GP of the new season, after having a a rather rough first year among the seniors.

9. 0
Originally Posted by jennylovskt
Johnny's LP didn't do much to me this time.
So totally disagree. I found it's a wonderfully promising program and the circular footwork (and the music during that) was especially impressive to me.

Just hoping he gets his confidence back and therefore his jumps.

10. 0
Originally Posted by Tinymavy15
I know if is from something else, but can't remember who used this.
I got distracted during his program, unfortunately, isn't he skating to the same composer as who did the original Fallen Angels (Melissa and Denis) music?

11. 0
Originally Posted by Mathman
Hey, eye of the beholder! What's so good-lookijng about this?

http://www.gala.fr/var/gal/storage/i..._reference.jpg

OK, nevermind.
Hey, MM must have gotten Seniorita flu. He started to use size 1 too.

Originally Posted by Tonichelle
I got distracted during his program, unfortunately, isn't he skating to the same composer as who did the original Fallen Angels (Melissa and Denis) music?
I am tired of Fallen Angels even though it was a great breakthrough the first time. You can't use it forever.

12. 0
Originally Posted by Hsuhs
On second thought, maybe it should have been 10.

http://img.beta.rian.ru/images/19040/63/190406352.jpg

i must admit, upon seeing this yesterday, i started laughing so hard, that i teared up a bit. :chorus:

still chuckle over it now.... and i'm a huge fan. i find it somewhat comical i guess.

well, he said he did a little "improvising." only plush can do this and not mess up significantly. a master at control and polish.

13. 0
Originally Posted by Tinymavy15
I actually really liked the program. It was the first time in years I actually felt an emotional connection from him, he actually showed some passion there. Of course the jumps were a mess, but he did do the triple axel at the very end. Great program...i love that second peice of music he used. I know if is from something else, but can't remember who used this.

I sat there for a few minutes thinking where have I heard that piece of music in Johnny Weir's program. It was driving me crazy, just like that Kaiser Permanente commercial with Clair de Lune. Then it struck me: Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze's magnificient SP from the 2002 Olympics. It's Lady Caliph (La Califfa sp?) from Ennio Morricone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB2lyUWrEcE

14. 0
Originally Posted by Buttercup
3. Joubert is much more attractive.
Well, Joubert is prettier...but I'd take Plushenko over him.

15. 0

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