Ladies LP | Page 23 | Golden Skate

Ladies LP

Tango_D_R

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Seriously stop with this nonsense.
What's the name of this thread? huh?
Neither Mao nor Yuna will benefit from this madness.
Nope, it even makes the neutral fans turn their backs on them..and that would be entirely purely YOURS fault got it?
You guys are killing your own beloved skaters, does that says enough?
I'm not saying every post about Mao and Yuna is irrational.. just some posts which seems obviously enough to me that is trying to bash the others.. didn't even at least to try to put some thoughts about the actual program which IS the name of this thread(LADIES'S LP!! LOOK!!)

Miss the old days when I hadn't signed up
 
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Basics

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
I really don't understand why so many Mao fans drag Yuna into this discussion. I think it's a nonsense to compare Mao and Yuna at this point.
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
ashely--did a bit better than i expected and like--however they still should have downgraded her first triple/double.
but she has cleaned up her jumps. priscilla is doing a good job with her jumps.
she needs to show and exhibit more emotion in her skating and maybe jump a bit higher. but she keeps improving she will be one to watch out for at n nationals.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
ashely--did a bit better than i expected and like--however they still should have downgraded her first triple/double.
but she has cleaned up her jumps. .

That first triple flip was definitely IJS CLEAN - nothing to downgrade there. The second trip flip was borderline. It was reviewed by the tech panel and Wager is not at a point where she gets benefit of the doubt on jump rotation so it was downgraded. I know you dislike her, Nagasu, and Flatt and to you, Zhang is the only decent skater the US has who is being held down by the politcal machine that is US Figure Skating, but come on! Wagner GOT THE JOB DONE:rock:
 

shallwedansu

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Can't we say BOTH Mao's and Yu-Na's PCS may have been inflated, and leave it at that? :disapp:

It's not always either/or, people! And contrary to what some may think, score inflation/PCS padding exists in other disciplines as well (e.g. Savchenko/Szolkowy at TEB).....sure, it's not fair but it's not a problem exclusive to Mao or Yu-Na.
Thank you! ITA.

Let's be honest: the only people here who keep arguing back and forth about Mao's PCS and bringing in Yu-Na's scores into the bickering are Yu-Na and Mao ubers. (To be even more honest: Korean and Japanese fans. There, I said it!)

Can you guys just create another forum to take your annoying, endless catfights and stop clogging up a perfectly nice forum like GS? Seriously! Either get over it or take it somewhere else. It's beyone annoying!
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Alissa deserved a medal over Leonova. The deduction she received on the Loops was too severe and she doesn't get enough credit for those spins.

Alissa fully deserved the 3 downgrades she received on the 3flip and the two 3loops. There should be no question that those jumps were under-rotated; it was very obvious.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Yes, she deserved the downgrade, but the penalty for downgraded jumps is still too severe. Her landings were clean. If she had rotated slightly further, but then double-footed the landing, fallen out of the landing, and put both her hands down on the ice...that would have scored higher.

There is a big problem with that.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Yes, she deserved the downgrade, but the penalty for downgraded jumps is still too severe. Her landings were clean. If she had rotated slightly further, but then double-footed the landing, fallen out of the landing, and put both her hands down on the ice...that would have scored higher.

There is a big problem with that.

Agreed!!
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Yes, she deserved the downgrade, but the penalty for downgraded jumps is still too severe. Her landings were clean. If she had rotated slightly further, but then double-footed the landing, fallen out of the landing, and put both her hands down on the ice...that would have scored higher.

There is a big problem with that.

ITA and thought Alissa skated well enough to medal.
 

gourry

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Yes, she deserved the downgrade, but the penalty for downgraded jumps is still too severe. Her landings were clean. If she had rotated slightly further, but then double-footed the landing, fallen out of the landing, and put both her hands down on the ice...that would have scored higher.

There is a big problem with that.

I don't get it.
Last season, you criticized the double penalty for downgrades were too severe.
This year, they changed the rule and judges give GOE without knowing whether or not the jump is downgraded by the caller, and purely by their judgement on the quality of jumps.
No more double penalty. I thought you were gonna be very happy with it.
If they gave bad GOE on jumps, it's simply because they judged the jumps were not that good.
Yet you are still criticizing the penalty is too severe.
WHAT do you want to do with downgrade??

It seems to me that you eventually want to abolish downgrading.
I strongly disagree with that idea because it is highly unfair for those who put their time and effort and often risk injuries to fully rotate those damn jumps!
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
ITA and thought Alissa skated well enough to medal.

Alissa did well, but IMHO Leonova fully deserved her bronze. A little rough around the edges, but she did the full set of triples (sort of). Alissa did have a fall, and the first triple loop was severely underrotated -- probably intended to be a combination.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Alissa did well, but IMHO Leonova fully deserved her bronze. A little rough around the edges, but she did the full set of triples (sort of). Alissa did have a fall, and the first triple loop was severely underrotated -- probably intended to be a combination.

Agreed. To me, if anything was questionable in that comp, it was the margin of victory by Ando. I was rather underwhelmed by her FS and I know she can do much better than that. That skate should NOT have gotten 110+ points.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
I don't get it.
Last season, you criticized the double penalty for downgrades were too severe.
This year, they changed the rule and judges give GOE without knowing whether or not the jump is downgraded by the caller, and purely by their judgement on the quality of jumps.
No more double penalty. I thought you were gonna be very happy with it.
If they gave bad GOE on jumps, it's simply because they judged the jumps were not that good.
Yet you are still criticizing the penalty is too severe.
WHAT do you want to do with downgrade??

It seems to me that you eventually want to abolish downgrading.
I strongly disagree with that idea because it is highly unfair for those who put their time and effort and often risk injuries to fully rotate those damn jumps!

The double penalty is still there. Alissa's Loops received -GOE because the judges are grading the jump in comparison to a Triple jump, not a Double jump (which is what the jump is worth when it is downgraded).

I don't think you've really listened to what I've said in the past, though.

Downgraded jumps should have their own base value. An underrotated Triple is less than Triple but MUCH more than a Double. It should be worth an amount that is between that of a Double and a Triple.

A Double Loop is worth 1.5 and a Triple Loop is worth 5.0. A downgraded Triple Loop should be worth something like 3.0.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Alissa did well, but IMHO Leonova fully deserved her bronze. A little rough around the edges, but she did the full set of triples (sort of). Alissa did have a fall, and the first triple loop was severely underrotated -- probably intended to be a combination.

Well Leonova didn't do the Loop - she doubled it. Can't really give her credit for the Toeloop either since she fell out of the landing.

Although, watching the performance again, it was better than I had thought. She was actually undermarked as well. So, I'd say she deserved to be ahead in the LP. Although, I still think Czisny had the best SP of the competition (much better than Leonova there), so she deserved Bronze overall.

It was a weak competition, though. Nobody was really memorable overall.
 

gourry

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
The double penalty is still there. Alissa's Loops received -GOE because the judges are grading the jump in comparison to a Triple jump, not a Double jump (which is what the jump is worth when it is downgraded).

I don't think you've really listened to what I've said in the past, though.

Downgraded jumps should have their own base value. An underrotated Triple is less than Triple but MUCH more than a Double. It should be worth an amount that is between that of a Double and a Triple.

A Double Loop is worth 1.5 and a Triple Loop is worth 5.0. A downgraded Triple Loop should be worth something like 3.0.


I got your point. I also feel bad when skaters get pretty low scores because of tiny little lack of rotation.
BUT.
What about spins and spirals? Skaters often get lower level of spiral because they didn't hold 0.3 second on one of their positions. Or because they hold 7.5 revolutions instead of 8 they get lower level. It ALWAYS happens. How are you gonna help them on that?
I don't think level 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, and 4 is the solution.
I don't think double, double and a half, and triple is the solution, either. Even then, there will be unsatisfied voice saying 'that jump shouldn't be called as double and a half loop. It was close to triple.'
Anyway, this is just my opinion.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Nothing will ever be perfect but it would be better to do it that way then leave it as the mess that we currently have.

As for Spirals (and spins and footwork) - The GOE bonus marks should be the same as Triple jumps, regardless of the level. It is indeed annoying that a Spiral can go from level 4 to level 3, and thus lose a massive amount of points (since only level 4 spirals receive the full +GOE benefit), just because a position was held for a fraction less than 3 seconds.
 

skatingbc

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
I know I've been outspoken about my approval of downgrades and -GOE for downgrades. I think the new rules the ISU have instituted about the judges not knowing if a jump has been downgraded or not is fair. As long as the judges hold each skater to the same standards and the tech panel is consistent with their calls (I know, this is another story entirely) then the system is fair. I realize that there can be huge arguments about seemingly unfair calls and biases coming from the tech panel and judges. Let's face it. Figure skating is a judged sport. The was it is being judged right now is, imo, more objective than 6.0. I never really bothered to learn much about the 6.0 system, so that could play into my conclusion. As long as it's judged though, there is no way to get rid of bias. That's human nature and there's not much we can do about it.

After saying that...Plushenko's PCS marks were a bit nuts! :rofl:
 

skate4ever

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
An underrotated Triple is less than Triple but MUCH more than a Double. It should be worth an amount that is between that of a Double and a Triple.

A Double Loop is worth 1.5 and a Triple Loop is worth 5.0. A downgraded Triple Loop should be worth something like 3.0.

I don't agree with that at all.
Under-rotated triple jump is an incomplete/unsuccessful maneuver,
whereas a fully-rotated double jump is a complete/successful one.

It's like comparing a weightlifter lifting 100kg halfway
vs. lifting 75kg all the way.
 

skatingbc

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
I don't agree with that at all.
Under-rotated triple jump is an incomplete/unsuccessful maneuver,
whereas a fully-rotated double jump is a complete/successful one.

It's like comparing a weightlifter lifting 100kg halfway
vs. lifting 75kg all the way.

ITA. Don't argue with Blades of Passion on this one though, I've tried.
 
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