Seems there could be a better/happy medium between the two.
Yes, there definitely can be!
Seems there could be a better/happy medium between the two.
A skater can try to do an underrotated jump, but that would be pointless. Why try to do an underrotated 3Loop, for example? If you are not actually able to do the 3Loop, trying to do an underrotated 3Loop will not increase your score. Placing a Double Axel in this part of your program (which is what every skater uses as a jumping pass in place of a Triple they don't feel comfortable with) would be better.
Therefore, everybody not capable of doing clean jumps would try to do it.Therefore, nobody would try to do it.
In terms of skating, look what happened with the wrong-edge deductions. "e" was being handed out inconsistently. If a skater was attempting a Lutz and had a very slight roll over to the inside edge, sometimes it wouldn't get marked at all with a deduction and sometimes it would get an "e" and a massive penalty would be imposed upon a tiny flaw in the jump.
ISU decided to introduce "!" to fix this problem. They expanded the definition of the Lutz from 2 categorizations to 3. The result is that wrong-edge calls are now being made far more fairly.
For example, when a person kills someone the description of that act can vary. It might be Manslaughter, it might be First Degree Murder, it might be Second Degree Murder, etc. The penalty and definition of that killing depends on the situation. We don't just throw everyone in the death chair.
Of course, what you're saying is absolutely true NOW because skaters will be penalized for underrotating their jumps, which is the way it should be.
But if the system legitimizes UR and awards points as you suggest, then skaters will earn more points by doing an UR triple than a clean double, so every skater not capable of doing clean triples will practice UR triples and do them in competition.
Skaters like Carolina, Miki, Yu-na and Mao have all won major senior events despite having their jumps downgraded. So it's not like a downgraded jump will ruin the whole competition for a skater.
Assuming that you're a genuine fan of figure skating, I'm kind of surprised you don't understand that commitment to full rotation is one of the most important technical aspects of the sport.
If they change the point system according to your suggestion, there will be no more double, triple or quad jumps; there'll be just whole bunch of in-betweens.
1. What would the judges then be grading, if it was considered a different element? Is it feasible that one judge might grade it according to the standards of a triple jump and some would as the Over-rotated double, thus causing GOE confusion?
2. Would an under-rotated triple jump be eligible for a positive GOE under your system, Blades? You've mentioned that they can still be pleasing to the eye, so I assume so. Why define an element if it's not?
I understand that the CoP has advantages, in that elements are quantified and a judge's score can thus be explained and justified. But I've been watching skating for more than twenty years, and my eyes glaze over when people start arguing about an 89-degree rotation versus a 91-degree rotation. How am I going to "sell" this sport I love so much to friends who love music and dance but don't see how skating could possibly interest them? Or should I only be trying to recruit people who collect baseball statistics or who work in the insurance business?
I completely agree. I want rules that promote this sport as a whole, not with exacting technical measurements that polarize a 3-5 degree difference into either big rewards, or big punishments.Why is a lyrical, emotional program with huge jumps (I'm talking about a theoretical program, not anyone's specific skate) marked down? What on earth is an edge call or a UR?
I understand that the CoP has advantages, in that elements are quantified and a judge's score can thus be explained and justified. But I've been watching skating for more than twenty years, and my eyes glaze over when people start arguing about an 89-degree rotation versus a 91-degree rotation. How am I going to "sell" this sport I love so much to friends who love music and dance but don't see how skating could possibly interest them? Or should I only be trying to recruit people who collect baseball statistics or who work in the insurance business?
How am I going to "sell" this sport I love so much to friends who love music and dance but don't see how skating could possibly interest them? Or should I only be trying to recruit people who collect baseball statistics or who work in the insurance business?
overall hurts skaters who have more aesthetically appealing performances (with clean underrotated jumps) over messier, unappealing ones (that may have fully rotated).
I am in the camp that thinks triple jumps which are underrotated should be considered a double.
I'd be perfectly fine with that- IF jumps that resulted in a fall resulted in no points at all. hwell:
Why no points at all?
To me (YMMV!), a fall on a jump is a failed jump. Therefore, I feel it deserves no credit at all. It's the one glaring error in a routine that clearly disrupts the flow of a program. Underrotated jumps (IMO!), not so much.
If your friends already love music and dance and have no interest in skating then I would say they will never be interested in it . Skating is the perfect combination of the those two worlds and if they can't see that it won't matter what you say or how you "sell it". COP or not.
An underrotated jump is not clean though. I think that is a major part of the problem when discussions about underrotations surface.
I am in the camp that thinks triple jumps which are underrotated should be considered a double.
They certainly can be clean. If a Triple jump comes up short of rotation but the blade exits with an out-flowing edge, then it is a clean underrotated jump.
Why? Tell me in detail why you think it is only as valuable as a double. Why do you think it is impossible for a jump to have an amount of rotation that is between 2 and 3 rotations? Do you not believe in Double Axels?
It may look clean but it is not. Underrotation is an error. Just like a fall, a step out, a two footed landing, an overration, and a hand down. They are all mistakes which deserve a deduction or a downgrade.
I find an underrotation even more annoying than a fall because I can see when the blade finished the rotation on the ice.
The Axel debate does not contribute to this discussion because it has an entirely different take off - it has nothing to do with underrotations.
If you lessen the point deduction the skaters are going to be less motivated to fix their technique than they already are.
It is much harder to do three full rotations and fall - that takes much more effort.
Coaches at my rink get more excited when their skaters fall after completing the rotation on a jump, then when their skaters UR a jump but land "clean"
Well, yes, because it shows that the skater is learning how to feel the jump and get a sense of the rotation.
Those skaters who are constantly falling on Triples would not be able to consistently land a clean, slightly underrotated version of the Triple, though.
Actually, they can do underrotated versions of the jumps they are attempting.
For some skaters, doing UR triple jumps is actually very easy. It's getting that extra 1/2-1/3 of a rotation that is the most difficult.