Whither Johnny?

Tonichelle · Oct 24, 2009

I've never said a fan cannot have the common sense of knowing their favorite isn't perfect. I'm good at pointing out the 'flaws' of a skater.

what I don't get is "fans" walking away because their skater stopped winning. I do tend to question if they're just fans of the titles, and not what the skater offers.

Medusa · Oct 24, 2009

Tonichelle said:
what I don't get is "fans" walking away because their skater stopped winning. I do tend to question if they're just fans of the titles, and not what the skater offers.

Oh, it's never about the titles. Sometimes it's about creativity, about artistry, about musicality. Sometimes it's about sheer admiration and unexplained enjoyment (e.g. my love for Joubert, Kavaguti / Smirnov). And even that can change. It's quite natural, I think. And I doubt that there are many figure skating fans who are all about the titles. Plushenko would have loads more fans then.

i love to skate · Oct 24, 2009

Tonichelle said:
I've never said a fan cannot have the common sense of knowing their favorite isn't perfect. I'm good at pointing out the 'flaws' of a skater.

what I don't get is "fans" walking away because their skater stopped winning. I do tend to question if they're just fans of the titles, and not what the skater offers.

Fans walk away all the time. You can be a fan of someone but get bored by them, their programs, or if you don't like the direction they are headed in. People often switch alliances in hockey or football...I don't think it's an uncommon occurrance. I am a fan of three different hockey teams but I will pay more attention to the one that is winning. I don't think this makes me any less of a "fan".

janetfan · Oct 24, 2009

i love to skate said:
Fans walk away all the time. You can be a fan of someone but get bored by them, their programs, or if you don't like the direction they are headed in. People often switch alliances in hockey or football...I don't think it's an uncommon occurrance. I am a fan of three different hockey teams but I will pay more attention to the one that is winning. I don't think this makes me any less of a "fan".

There are many ways to feel about this, and all are fine and acceptable.

I was about to disagree with you - and then realized that just because I only support one hockey team does not mean you should be the same way.
I realize I support several European football teams and the truth is I will try and watch the team that is having the best season.

For sports here in the USA I could never be like that and could never support teams from NYC, Dallas, etc. That is just the way I am. Others can have a totally different outlook about who they support and why.

We can equate loyalty to an individual or team with being a fan - but it is not the only criteria.

Skating is hard for me because I really like so many skaters. I like Yuna and Mao.
I also like Alissa, Caroline and Mirai even though I see other skaters that I think are much better. Whatever it is, and however we see it can be different from the way others feel about this.
And that is OK.
I could never be the fan of only one skater, that would be impossible.

Tonichelle · Oct 24, 2009

Medusa said:
Oh, it's never about the titles. .

for you and many other's that's true... but skating fans are so fickle when it comes to the skaters and I've seen many dump one of their favorites for no other reason than they stopped winning / had a few bad seasons...

changing styles is one thing, bombing and losing fans just for that? thats totally fairweather... they'll be back, once the gold comes back... don't think that's trully a "fanatic" (which is where we get fan in the first place)

i love to skate · Oct 24, 2009

janetfan said:
There are many ways to feel about this, and all are fine and acceptable.

I was about to disagree with you - and then realized that just because I only support one hockey team does not mean you should be the same way.
I realize I support several European football teams and the truth is I will try and watch the team that is having the best season.

For sports here in the USA I could never be like that and could never support teams from NYC, Dallas, etc. That is just the way I am. Others can have a totally different outlook about who they support and why.

We can equate loyalty to an individual or team with being a fan - but it is not the only criteria.

Skating is hard for me because I really like so many skaters. I like Yuna and Mao.
I also like Alissa, Caroline and Mirai even though I see other skaters that I think are much better. Whatever it is, and however we see it can be different from the way others feel about this.
And that is OK.
I could never be the fan of only one skater, that would be impossible.

Very good post! :thumbsup: There certainly are hockey teams that I would NEVER support (hello Toronto and Calgary). I like having three teams to cheer for....keeps me busy! :laugh:

janetfan · Oct 24, 2009

Was wondering about your topic heading "Whither Johnny?"

Did you by any chance mean "Wither Johnny?"

krenseby · Oct 24, 2009

Mathman said:
I suppose we should not make too much of one competition, but does it seem like the Johnny Weir era is over?

Once, Johnny could be counted on, win or lose, to bring something unique to his programs. Where has his mojo gone?

I am not answering the question of where Johnny's mojo has gone but also why a lot of his fans abandoned him.

A serious lack of momentum.

Think about it. A year after almost winning the U.S. nationals (it was so close, he was within a hair's breadth of it) and of going on to medal at Worlds, he failed to even qualify for Worlds in the first place. Because of that failure, no one can say whether how Johnny stacks up against the other U.S. men and whether he's still competitive enough to challenge his countrymen at Nationals and go on to the Olympics and to Worlds.

Heck, Johnny's now in Fumie territory: if he can't make it out of Nationals, then he's in a non-factor. Remember how Fumie dropped off the radar in 2007 and 2008 other than people feeling sorry for her? It's exactly the same for Johnny now.

Also, a serious issue for him is that he has left his daring creativity and unique sense of style behind. I think it was an asset despite many people ragging on him for it. But whether he wants to go down that road again is really his choice to make and not ours.

Tonichelle · Oct 24, 2009

i love to skate said:
Very good post! :thumbsup: There certainly are hockey teams that I would NEVER support (hello Toronto and Calgary). I like having three teams to cheer for....keeps me busy!

when it comes down to it, though, in a head to head... don't you choose one over the other????

I was in that boat in 2002 with S/P and B/S... I tried to be impartial... but in hte end I went with the N. Americans... (they listened to me and skated Love Story, how could I not? LOL)

i love to skate · Oct 24, 2009

Tonichelle said:
when it comes down to it, though, in a head to head... don't you choose one over the other????

I was in that boat in 2002 with S/P and B/S... I tried to be impartial... but in hte end I went with the N. Americans... (they listened to me and skated Love Story, how could I not? LOL)

You know it really depends - If they do play against each other I sometimes root for one and sometimes the other. They are all in the Eastern conference so they won't ever play against each other in the Stanley Cup Finals so maybe it's easier for me to not pick a favorite because of this.

The only time I can relate to having two favorites in the same skating discipline was when Elvis and Kurt went head to head in 1993 and 1994. From what I remember (I was very young then) I honestly didn't care who did better - I wanted them both to skate clean but the outcome didn't really matter.

Brandenburg · Oct 24, 2009

I am not a fan of Johnny's nor an opponent - I'm absolutely neutral on him. I enjoy it when he skates well and when he doesn't, I move on. I have to say though that watching this performance was the first time I was thoroughly bored with a performance of his - and that's perhaps more awful than any other reaction I could have. It was same old-same old (even though some of that was solid) and the big items escaped him.

I think each talented person has a level beyond which they cannot go - doesn't matter what you're talented in, you have a maximum level and most people never even get close to theirs but we're talking about a hard-working, ambitious, elite skater here. I think we have seen him hit his max level and since he could move no farther, slide back a little in the frustrating attempt to move upward. It is sad that we can't just celebrate his best and leave it at that but it's a competitive sport and he competes. I actually feel for him because I think he is a lovely skater and has achieved a level of accomplishment that is wondeful to behold. But he cannot go farther and that puts him in a losing position right now when in so many ways he is a winner. But that's skating... I think we've seen the best of Johnny already and I hope that his best is what remains with all fans because it's quite beautiful.

Brandenburg

yelyoh · Oct 24, 2009

JW has some serious confidence problems. I'm also not sure just how much his heart is in his skating these days. A few of years ago, he was preoccupied with other things like fashion and being Russian. He got a little outrageous, got dissed by the USFSA, got death threats during the last Olympics and I think all that may have taken it's toll. All I do know if that he is no longer an automatic choice for the Oly team. Evan most certainly is and the other two spots will be between Adam, Brandon, Jeremy, Johnny and maybe someone we don't even expect. Johnny is going to have to fight for one of those two remaining spots and I'm not sure he will be able to do it. He is becoming a weaker and weaker competitor and I don't think that trend is going to reverse itself though I hope it will. It's sad for me as I am a fan of his skating

Justafan · Oct 25, 2009

Wow I haven't posted here in forever but just wanted to interject as a Johnny fan to say I will always be a fan even if occasionally disappointed. I think part of the problem is fatigue...he was obviously fatigued...not that it's an excuse. He needs to focus, focus, focus...cut back on any kind of public appearances and extracurricular projects. Could have been nervous with the new program and skating with Plushy in the mix. Time to step back and re-evaluate and the sooner the better. I really wish he would move away from the classic music and skate to something more rhythmic but I guess it's too late at this point of the season.'

On a side note, I am so ticked about the lack of TV coverage but my husband did get some kind of special antenna so we get Universal Sports now...but I can't Tivo it yet...arghhhhhhh.

Blades of Passion · Oct 25, 2009

I have to say that I am also disappointed. His programs for both the SP and LP have been very lacking two years in a row. So sad; he used to display such a high level of artistry.

jennylovskt · Oct 25, 2009

Tonichelle said:
what I don't get is "fans" walking away because their skater stopped winning. I do tend to question if they're just fans of the titles, and not what the skater offers.

Tonichelle said:
for you and many other's that's true... but skating fans are so fickle when it comes to the skaters and I've seen many dump one of their favorites for no other reason than they stopped winning / had a few bad seasons...

changing styles is one thing, bombing and losing fans just for that? thats totally fairweather... they'll be back, once the gold comes back... don't think that's trully a "fanatic" (which is where we get fan in the first place)

So what? Will that make you a better person than the so called "fairweather" fans?

Besides, in most cases, there is a direct relationship between the qualities of the skater's skating and his or her title. As some one has already pointed out earlier, most of us don't know the skaters personally. All we liked was his or her skating, the looks, the styles, the costumes, ... if any of these changed, the feeling for the skaters will change. It's natural. There is nothing wrong with it. Do we need to rationally stay loyal while the attracting factors are gone for fear of being called "fairwheather" fans? Absolutely no. Being a fan is not rational in the first place. The majority of the so called "fairwheather fans" don't have ill wishes to the skaters they stopped loving or felt less loving. They will resume their love once these skaters are better in skating or they discovered something new they love for these skaters.

Tango_D_R · Oct 25, 2009

I'm sure he can bounce up with excitements once he finds a right music and choreograph that can either bring his artistry and *mojo*

Tonichelle · Oct 25, 2009

jennylovskt said:
They will resume their love once these skaters are better in skating or they discovered something new they love for these skaters.

that's exactly why it's called a fairweather fan... "I'll come back to it... when they do better" okay, fine... you like the sunshine only.

then there are those that are dedicated rain or shine... which is a heck of a lot harder.

jennylovskt · Oct 25, 2009

Tonichelle said:
that's exactly why it's called a fairweather fan... "I'll come back to it... when they do better" okay, fine... you like the sunshine only.

then there are those that are dedicated rain or shine... which is a heck of a lot harder.

Whatever you want to call them, it's fine. What I don't get it is that you seem to praise for the fans who choose to stay loyal and be in the harder way. To me, the fans who swing are not as crazy as the fans who are loyal. That's the difference. But there is not a single thing that makes one better than the other.

psycho · Oct 25, 2009

Tonichelle :rock:

There's a lot to be said for loyalty.

Tonichelle · Oct 25, 2009

jennylovskt said:
Whatever you want to call them, it's fine. What I don't get it is that you seem to praise for the fans who choose to stay loyal and be in the harder way. To me, the fans who swing are not as crazy as the fans who are loyal. That's the difference. But there is not a single thing that makes one better than the other.

"fan" comes from the term "fanatic"!!! :laugh:

so you're right, it's not something that is rational. that's the point! (it's why you see semi-drunken men there at a football game with thier shirts off and their stomach and faces painted in the team color scheme... and why you have people shelling out an amazing amount of money to make those huge banners for a skater at the rink)

no one said it was better... just one seems to go more inline with the definition than the other... and I don't think Johnny's psyche needs a bunch of people dropping him just because he had a bad debut.

Whither Johnny?

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Medusa

i love to skate

janetfan

Match Penalty

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

i love to skate

janetfan

Match Penalty

krenseby

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

i love to skate

Brandenburg

yelyoh

Justafan

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

jennylovskt

Tango_D_R

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

jennylovskt

psycho

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

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