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Thread: Cup of China: Predictions

  1. #31
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    Ladies
    1. Carolina Kostner(i hope)
    2. Joannie Rochette
    3. Fumie Suguri
    and

    Men
    1.Oda
    2.Lysacek
    3.Contesti

    Dance:
    1. Belbin/Agosto
    2. Khoklova/Novitski
    3. Faiella/Scalia
    Last edited by Hiara80; 10-27-2009 at 07:15 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiast View Post
    omg I'm not the only one who agrees! Rachael is soo boring, she needs speed, and better posture and lines, not to mention more speed in everything

    I don't think Rachael being boring is somthing to do with her posture or lines. It's due to her lack in charactor and expression as well as her speed. Caroline has one of the best posture but look boring to me.

    Akiko Suzuki, for example, does not have so nice posture or lines as mao (or Caroline), in my opinion, but she is much more exciting to watch, I think Akiko is the most expressive among all current Japanese top lady skaters. I wish her all the best in Cup of China. Go Akiko~!
    Last edited by zartian; 10-28-2009 at 05:24 AM.

  3. #33
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    Yeah, well, Rachael's posture doesn't help... But Caroline is boring. Watching her live at TEB; she does execute some stunning moves (the pearl spin, charlottes...); but she's so forgettable. What makes her boring is I think her lack of speed; her 'I don't bother with facial expressions' attitude, her weird technique on the lutz and the axel and the fact that she barely manages a smile for the audience after a performance; it makes her look too robotic. Then I think I prefer Rachael's artistry that looks a little unnatural but at least is executed with enthusiasm.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trewyn View Post
    Yeah, well, Rachael's posture doesn't help... But Caroline is boring. Watching her live at TEB; she does execute some stunning moves (the pearl spin, charlottes...); but she's so forgettable. What makes her boring is I think her lack of speed; her 'I don't bother with facial expressions' attitude, her weird technique on the lutz and the axel and the fact that she barely manages a smile for the audience after a performance; it makes her look too robotic. Then I think I prefer Rachael's artistry that looks a little unnatural but at least is executed with enthusiasm.
    That said, with the ISU replacing judges with robots in the 2078-9 season, i think Caroline's robotic look will work perfectly.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by zartian View Post
    I don't think Rachael being boring is somthing to do with her posture or lines. It's due to her lack in charactor and expression as well as her speed. Caroline has one of the best posture but look boring to me.

    Akiko Suzuki, for example, does not have so nice posture or lines as mao (or Caroline), in my opinion, but she is much more exciting to watch, I think Akiko is the most expressive among all current Japanese top lady skaters. I wish her all the best in Cup of China. Go Akiko~!
    Rachael's posture needs work. Get her to do ballet exercises to gain awareness in her upper body. Her spins are ugly to me (at least worst than her teammates Alissa and Carline). Zhang too, is very boring, she needs speed.. And yes, you're absolutely right, it's her lack of expression too that's making her boring. It's clearly obvious Rachael is no phenom, she's no Kwan or Asada or Baiul...i guess for her the main thing is consistency. She is more consistent than Czisny. I suggest Flatt go work with a mime artist off-ice.

  6. #36
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    I see from looking at this thread that most are agreed that Oda will come out on top, with Lysacek second and a variety of skaters fighting for bronze. That's an OK result as the idea isn't to peak during the GP series anyway. Whatever the outcome, he'll take what he learns back home and keep on polishing the programs with an eye to Vancouver. Everything along the way is a testing ground toward peaking there, as it is for all the others as well.

    As for me, I think it's a bit premature to give the nod to Oda though his FS was delightfully charming and very much suited him.

    We haven't even seen Evan skate yet. It's entirely likely imo that he'll be bringing fire and passion to the ice in equal proportions to Oda's lightness and fun.

    OTOH Oda has the benefit of one competition behind him already and the accompanying feedback. So could go either way.

    Oda talks about adding a quad. Can he deliver? Evan says he may put one in - he may not, depends on how consistent they are in training.

    If both bring their A-games to the ice, the rest is out of their control. Hopefully they will and the judges will be "real"! In any event, the fans are in for a treat!

    All things bearing equal - with impartial judging - ( I can dream, can't I?) - I give the nod to Evan if only because he's proven over time to be stronger mentally, though that is NOT the only reason. I feel his skating is every bit as strong as Oda's just very different.

    That said, here are mine.

    Men:
    Lysacek
    Oda
    Contesti

    Ladies:
    Rochette
    Suguri
    Nagasu/Flatt

    Dance:
    Belbin/Agosto
    Khokhlova/Novitski
    Faiella/Scali

    Pairs:
    Shen/Zhao
    Zhang.Zhang
    ???

  7. #37
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    As for me, I think it's a bit premature to give the nod to Oda though his FS was delightfully charming and very much suited him.

    We haven't even seen Evan skate yet. It's entirely likely imo that he'll be bringing fire and passion to the ice in equal proportions to Oda's lightness and fun.
    See this where I have to disagree. I think the issue here is that Oda is a stronger skater technically than Evan. I mean Evan is never going to get the GOE on his jumps that Oda gets on his. And Evan's 3axel is downgradable.

    The issue has been Oda's mental mistakes although he doesnt normally make this mistake at GP events :lol: and the fact that his programs last year where not well liked. So Evan got a LOT higher PCS. This year though the judges love Oda's long program and as such I dont' see Evan getting a really huge PCS advantage. Maybe some PCS advantage but not really as big as he wants got.

    So the only issue is mental and I think Oda is getting a handle on it. He's always skated fairly well anyways. It's just the counting isseus. And I thought jumpwise he got better as the season progressed. Oda looks really comfortable with his program this year. And I don't think he needs a quad to beat Evan. The only question is how much do the judges like Oda's short. Was he just lowballed two weeks ago for being in the second group?
    Last edited by bekalc; 10-28-2009 at 12:41 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    See this where I have to disagree. I think the issue here is that Oda is a stronger skater technically than Evan. I mean Evan is never going to get the GOE on his jumps that Oda gets on his. And Evan's 3axel is downgradable.

    The issue has been Oda's mental mistakes although he doesnt normally make this mistake at GP events :lol: and the fact that his programs last year where not well liked. So Evan got a LOT higher PCS. This year though the judges love Oda's long program and as such I dont' see Evan getting a really huge PCS advantage. Maybe some PCS advantage but not really as big as he wants got.

    So the only issue is mental and I think Oda is getting a handle on it. He's always skated fairly well anyways. It's just the counting isseus. And I thought jumpwise he got better as the season progressed. Oda looks really comfortable with his program this year. And I don't think he needs a quad to beat Evan. The only question is how much do the judges like Oda's short. Was he just lowballed two weeks ago for being in the second group?
    What you say indicates you don't think Evan will have made any improvements on his GOEs and there I tend to disagree with you. They have been slowly and steadily climbing recently and he had to pay special attention to increasing them for Worlds when he wasn't able to even attempt a quad. I think it paid off and they will continue to get better and better now that he has focused on them.

    I think his downgrade issues last season had more to do with the changes TAT made in his technique that hadn't yet settled into muscle memory. I expect that will also change. After all the ups and downs of his last year's season we KNOW he's gotten even stronger mentally. He had to in order to overcome what could have been devastating to his confidence. Instead, he rose above them, and turned them into positives to become even stronger.

    So what we have is two strong and talented skaters, one of whom has already shown his programs to the world - and the judges - and one who has yet to do so. It's too soon to say what the judges will think of Evan's - they haven't even seen them yet. How can we know how they will be received?

    I still say it's too soon to crown either one for CoC champ. Let's hope they both skate well and then see what happens. For many - judges included - it boils down to different strokes for different folks. Their strokes are different on the ice - ours are different off of it! I can appreciate both while preferring Evan's. I think you can/do too.

    Fun chatting with you.

  9. #39
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    Evan really got more GOE at the end of last season, and he deserved it too, I think. If you compare earlier performances, where basically every jump looked scratchy and squeezed out - most of his jumps, except for the 3A, looked really good at Worlds, he even got speed out of the jump, which is what I often missed in earlier years.

    Plus, have you seen that sitspin? Should get at least +2 GOE each time he does it.

  10. #40
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    Predictions:

    Men:

    1. Oda
    2. Lysacek
    3. Ten (Go!!!)

    Women:

    1. Rochette
    2. Suguri
    3. Suzuki

    Pairs:

    1. Zhang/Zhang
    2. Shen/Zhao
    3. Volosozhar/Morozov

    Dance (total guesses):

    1. Belbin/Agosto
    2. Khokhlova/Novitski
    3. Chock/Zuerlein

  11. #41
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    Medusa Evan really got more GOE at the end of last season, and he deserved it too, I think. If you compare earlier performances, where basically every jump looked scratchy and squeezed out - most of his jumps, except for the 3A, looked really good at Worlds, he even got speed out of the jump, which is what I often missed in earlier years.

    Plus, have you seen that sitspin? Should get at least +2 GOE each time he does it.
    I'm not saying Evan isn't going to get any GOE at all. Or anything like that. And Oda is hardly a bad spinner. :lol: But quality wise Evan's jumps will never be at the level of Oda's. There's frankly no comparision between the two. Oda may be in terms of quality one of the best jumpers this sport has seen. His landings are absolutely incredible.

    Now the thing is Evan has for most of his career been a much better competitor than Oda has, and that might factor in. I can see maybe Evan doing a quad and Oda not doing so. (But I'm not so sure) But in terms of technical ability, Oda IS the stronger skater. He has better basics and better jumps. The only area where Evan perhaps surpasses is when it comes to command of the ice (so to speak). And well that can be explained just by height.

    As for the 3axel, it wasn't just Tarasova's choregraphy. Evan has had his downgraded in the past season and he had it downgraded at WTT and Four Continents too. He might have gotten lucky at worlds.
    Last edited by bekalc; 10-28-2009 at 04:18 PM.

  12. #42
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    Like it or not, Evan will get high GOE because he is the reigning World champion. Oda was 7th at 2009 Worlds.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Like it or not, Evan will get high GOE because he is the reigning World champion. Oda was 7th at 2009 Worlds.
    Surely he will get high GOE, but question is will it be high enough to beat Oda.

  14. #44
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Like it or not, Evan will get high GOE because he is the reigning World champion. Oda was 7th at 2009 Worlds.
    You may be right. But I'm not sure what being world champion has to do with whether his elements are better than Nobu's. I'd agree that Evan would get higher PCS though.

  15. #45
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    merrybai, I think the very fact that we've seen Oda nail his program is the reason people are thinking he'll be the winner. We don't know what Lysacek's going to do. Plus, Oda seems to do better than Lysacek on the Grand Prix circuit (one gold for Lysacek, three/four for Oda (4th being TEB this year), and this is despite Lysacek having a two season advantage).

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