Asada says "not changing anything"

bekalc · Oct 26, 2009

I'm sure Mao had someone helping her with jumps. But I'm not sure if it was fulltime. Which is an issue.(I'd have no clue about whether it was fulltime)

Honestly changing her technique on things like the 3flip may be helpful long term wise, but its not particularly helpful for the Olympics.

Blades of Passion · Oct 26, 2009

GoPC2018 said:
If she does change, what the jump layout will look like?

I think, since she doesn't have 3Lz or 3-3, without 3A it will be almost impossible for her to be contending for Olympic gold.

All of this talk of Mao not having a 3-3 is pissing me off. She has gotten credit for both the 3Flip-3Loop and 3Flip-3Toe on numerous occasions.

The 3Flip-3Loop she did at this past World Championships was the single highest scoring element of the entire Ladies' competition!

She does have a 3Lutz as well, just not a perfect one.

This is why her insistence to not change her programs at all is incredibly annoying and baffling. She can do the 3-3 and NEEDS to do it...but she doesn't.

Makes no sense.

Dipyramidal · Oct 26, 2009

There has been rumours going around stating that kurt wants to be mao's coach.

jenaj · Oct 26, 2009

janetfan said:
Without the 3A, 3L or 3x3 Mao can't contend for the Olympic podium let alone the Gold medal. In fact, she would be hard up to beat skaters like Alissa, Alena and Ashley as we saw in Moscow last weekend.

What happened to Mao's 3-3? She did two 3-3s in her LP when she won Worlds in 2008.
The way for Mao to compete seems so simple to me: cancel the 3A, include a 3-3 and do at least 6 triples. Yu Na is not perfect. She doesn't have a consistent 3-loop and in her last two competitions, including her gold medal skate at Worlds, she only did 5 triples. Mao can match that--or she could at one time--and can likely beat it. Mao definitely beats Yu Na on spirals and I think on spins and footwork, also. Unless Mao wants to hand Yu Na the OGM right now, she needs to make some changes in her jump layout and forget about the 3A, which is a killer unless it can be landed consistently.

janetfan · Oct 26, 2009

jenaj said:
What happened to Mao's 3-3? She did two 3-3s in her LP when she won Worlds in 2008.
The way for Mao to compete seems so simple to me: cancel the 3A, include a 3-3 and do at least 6 triples. Yu Na is not perfect. She doesn't have a consistent 3-loop and in her last two competitions, including her gold medal skate at Worlds, she only did 5 triples. Mao can match that--or she could at one time--and can likely beat it. Mao definitely beats Yu Na on spirals and I think on spins and footwork, also. Unless Mao wants to hand Yu Na the OGM right now, she needs to make some changes in her jump layout and forget about the 3A, which is a killer unless it can be landed consistently.

I don't know what became of Mao's 3x3 or why she is struggling with her jumps.

I do think she is handing Yuna, Joannie, Miki, and a few others a chance for an Olympic medal that we all thought would be hers.
Pride comes before the fall.

Dipyramidal · Oct 26, 2009

Last year at nationals, she did a 3-3 combination. but it was ur. It looked clean though..

bekalc · Oct 26, 2009

jenaj said:
What happened to Mao's 3-3? She did two 3-3s in her LP when she won Worlds in 2008.
The way for Mao to compete seems so simple to me: cancel the 3A, include a 3-3 and do at least 6 triples. Yu Na is not perfect. She doesn't have a consistent 3-loop and in her last two competitions, including her gold medal skate at Worlds, she only did 5 triples. Mao can match that--or she could at one time--and can likely beat it. Mao definitely beats Yu Na on spirals and I think on spins and footwork, also. Unless Mao wants to hand Yu Na the OGM right now, she needs to make some changes in her jump layout and forget about the 3A, which is a killer unless it can be landed consistently.

Mao's cannnot afford to drop the 3axel, while her 3lutz is missing. Not to mention her 3salchow is also shaky. Without a 3 axel to replace her 3lutz, she's not competitive with the other top ladies, much less Yu-na Kim. I mean to be frank without her 3axel, Lepisto will have more content. Laura is just missing a 3flip. (She's landing the 3lutz more and more and has her other triples)

Plus, Kim didn't just do 5 triples she did do 3 double axels. And you can complain about her double axels all you want, one of them was possible because of her extremely difficult combinations.

herios · Oct 26, 2009

jenaj said:
What happened to Mao's 3-3? She did two 3-3s in her LP when she won Worlds in 2008.
.

I know what happened with her 3/3 combo. The judges just started to be a lot stricter on the ratification of the ful rotations of the jumps in the last season or so. Not just with Mao but with all the skaters. they are calling UR much more often than before.

She is one of the victims. especially on the loop it is much more harder to achieve a real ful rotation because of the nature of the jump. What was ratified in 2008, is not the same with what is ratified starting last season. And if you are a core fan, you should have observed that in this past season, how many times Mao was hit with UR on her 3/3 combo. Most likely she thinks she has beter chances to score higher with a clean 3/2 (earning positive GOE) than with an UR 3/3 with a negative GOE.
And I am sorry for her fans, who thought that the LA result was only a blip, that was actually the consequence of this tightening of the rules, to call strictly both edge calls and UR and that left Mao really exposed as her lutz was always questionable and her loop must be really fully rotated in the back of her flip.
If her 3 axel won't become a real consistent jump, her season will be just an extension of a downhill which started last season, when she started to lose her dominance.

Shocking as it is, in a year she basically became an underdog from the main favourite. Quite sad.

Tinymavy15 · Oct 26, 2009

jovani2293 said:
I'm just think that Mao is young and still has 2014. I think she is going to go to Miki's coach after the olympics.

Yes, maybe Sochi is the bigger picture now, for Tat at least. I highly doubt that Mao will still be under her tutalage by then, I see her going straight to Brain Orser after Yu-Na retires, which if Mao has her way will be right after Vancover.

janetfan · Oct 26, 2009

Tinymavy15 said:
Yes, maybe Sochi is the bigger picture now, for Tat at least. I highly doubt that Mao will still be under her tutalage by then, I see her going straight to Brain Orser after Yu-Na retires, which if Mao has her way will be right after Vancover.

What makes anybody think Orser wants or needs Mao for a student? If Yuna retires Rippon is in a position to be Brian's top skater and he already has Christina Gao and a few other younger students?
Not that I know this - but hasn't there been talk about a less than perfect relationship between Orser and the JSF? And is it likeley to get better in an Olympic season?

On top of that, Mao has yet to show the personal maturity necessary to live and train overseas on a full time basis. I doubt if Brian would have any interest in working with Mao other than to do something like he did with Lambiel - a week or two of axle coaching. I doubt if he would consider one of these wacked out, part-time training situations that Mao and JSF seem to prefer.

At this point Mao could turn out to be carrying enough baggage, with a reputuation for being hard to coach and having an snarling big brother over her shoulder in the form of a Federation that likes to micro manage her career.

It already looks like Tat's reputation is going to take a big hit and that is something alot of coaches might consider before taking on Mao.

And who says Yuna is retiring after this season?
and if she does I will buy Caroline Zhang's plane ticket for an interview with Orser :rock:

suosuo · Oct 26, 2009

janetfan said:
What makes anybody think Orser wants or needs Mao for a student? If Yuna retires Rippon is in a position to be Brians top pupil and he already has Christina Gao and a few other younger students?
Not that I know this - but hasn't there been talk about a less than perfect relationship between Orser and the JSF? And is it likeley to get better in an Olympic season?

On top of that, Mao has yet to show the personal maturity necessary to live and train overseas on a full time basis. I doubt if Brian would have any interest in working with Mao other than to do something like he did with Lambiel - a week or two of axle coaching. I doubt if he would consider one of these wacked out, part-time training situations that Mao and JSF seem to prefer.

At this point Mao could turn out to be carrying enough baggage, with a reputuation for being hard to coach and having an snarling big brother over her shoulder in the form of a Federation that likes to micro manage her career.

It already looks like Tat's reputation is going to take a big hit and that is something alot of coaches might consider before taking on Mao.

And who says Yuna is retiring after this season?
and if she does I will buy Caroline Zhang's plane ticket for an interview with Orser

And, also, who says Mao want Brain Orser? It all people speculation. They just use less than one minutes to type such sentences.

Okami · Oct 26, 2009

Tinymavy15 said:
I see her going straight to Brain Orser after Yu-Na retires, which if Mao has her way will be right after Vancover.

I sincerely doubt Mao will go to Orser. He is not the most popular coach in Japan after his "YuNa is unjustly penalized by judges who turned a blind eye to Miki's underrotations" and the whole "Japanese skaters obstructed YuNa in practices" fiasco.
Plus, Mao needs a strong technical coach, and Brian has yet to prove himself as one. His skaters came to him as quite proficient jumpers. Mao landed more 3Ts, ratified 3Lzs and 3Ss under TAT's tutelage than YuNa's 3Ls under Brian's.

Lee Barkell, Takeshi Honda or Nikolai Morozov would be more likely candidates.

ETA: But I don't think Mao's going to switch away from TAT unless 1) she is pressurized by JSF 2) TAT's health does not allow her to give Mao all the attention she needs.

ETA2: Some people mentioned that Mao should move to Russia pemanently until Olympics. This is not possible. Mao is studying in Japan, and she has to attend at least some of the classes. Reportedly Chukyo was unhappy with her and with Miki when they spent too much time in America (back when Mao was with Arutunian).

janetfan · Oct 26, 2009

Okami said:
I sincerely doubt Mao will go to Orser. He is not the most popular coach in Japan after his "YuNa is unjustly penalized by judges who turned a blind eye to Miki's underrotations" and the whole "Japanese skaters obstructed YuNa in practices" fiasco.
Plus, Mao needs a strong technical coach, and Brian has yet to prove himself as one. His skaters came to him as quite proficient jumpers. Mao landed more 3Ts, ratified 3Lzs and 3Ss under TAT's tutelage than YuNa's 3Ls under Brian's.

Lee Barkell, Takeshi Honda or Nikolai Morozov would be more likely candidates.

Yes you are right about the loop. Yuna doesn't need it and Orser is not an imbecile. He plays the CoP system brilliantly.
Make any argument you want but it seems odd picking on Yuna's jumps. They are to die for and Mao's are looking worse than ever.

Okami · Oct 26, 2009

janetfan said:
Make any argument you want but it seems odd picking on Yuna's jumps.

I never said that they are bad, just that they were good before YuNa switched to Brian. And one jump that she had astruggled with before the coaching switch on is still a no-show.

ETA: Yes, "player" is exactly how I would describe Orser. He works in such a way as to guarantee his skaters to get the most points. Things that do not gain points do not bother him. As they do bother me, I'm, well, pretty bothered.

ETA2: Yup, Mao's jumps look just as bad as Joannie's 3Lz when she was fixing hers... The technique can't be changed in a day, it usually takes about 2 seasons. TAT made a mistake of trying to fix all jumps at the same time. That's why I would prefer Mao to switch to someone who already has experience with fixing jumps.

janetfan · Oct 26, 2009

Okami said:
I never said that they are bad, just that they were good before YuNa switched to Brian. And one jump that she had astruggled with before the coaching switch on is still a no-show.

And as Yuna is the current WC and odds on favorite to win the OGM - what is your point?

That Orser can't coach? Please, I have seen Yuna every year since she went to Brian and her progress in all areas has been solid enough to leave her only rival in the dust.
Before I get to pro Yuna/Orser I want to say I love Mao. I feel bad she has gotten into this rut. I hope she can work her way out of it.
But you and I must be watching a different sport if you can say that Mao under Tat has made the progress that Yuna has made under Orser.

i love to skate · Oct 26, 2009

janetfan said:
Orser is not an imbecile. He plays the CoP system brilliantly.

I agree that Brian is a great coach but it really is David Wilson that plays COP to perfection

Ladskater · Oct 26, 2009

HCOSurfer said:
:banging:

This is probably THE stupidest move I've seen by a skater since Caroline switched to Charlene Wong.

??? what do you mean?

Okami · Oct 26, 2009

janetfan said:
And as Yuna is the current WC and odds on favorite to win the OGM - what is your point?

That Mao needs a coach who has already proven that he/she can FIX a skater's faulty technique. Bran hasn't had such a skater yet.

But you and I must be watching a different sport if you can say that Mao under Tat has made the progress that Yuna has made under Orser.

Have you ever read my post?

As I said, fixing jumps takes a lot of time. If somebody looked at Joannie's struggles with jumps while she was in the middle of fixing 3Lz, they would probably say that Joannie and her team are making a mistake - flutzing wasn't even heavily penalized back then. But thanks to that effort Joannie became a contender now.

As I mentioned, I'm not a fan of TAT's approach (and I dislike her programs & music choices for Mao this season) - by trying to fix all of Mao's jumps at once she rendered Mao's technique extremely unstable. But, at least, she gave her a solid 3T and and made an effort to fix other jumps, which might prove beneficient in a season or two. If she took things step-by-step, she might have been more successful.

janetfan · Oct 26, 2009

i love to skate said:
I agree that Brian is a great coach but it really is David Wilson that plays COP to perfection

Yes, I said Orser but I think of their handling of Yuna as a team. I could have said Orser/Wilson.
But there is such a thing as strategy. And keeping your skater calm and prepared to compete. Looking at Yuna's jumps, they are either maintained or improved under Orser. Her 3 L is the best from a Lady I have seen and looks better than many of the guys.

Mao on the other hand seems to be sliding. And Lambiel is not the only skater who has gone to Orser for jumping help. Who goes to Tat for jumping help?

This is silly because I think Joannie is Yuna's main rival now. Mao may still be able to get a medal but her entire array of jumps has become unstable.
Mao is one of the greatest natural talenst I have ever seen with superb skating skills.
She is also looking like one of the most mis-managed skaters I have seen too.

Gee · Oct 26, 2009

Okami said:
I never said that they are bad, just that they were good before YuNa switched to Brian. And one jump that she had astruggled with before the coaching switch on is still a no-show.

ETA: Yes, "player" is exactly how I would describe Orser. He works in such a way as to guarantee his skaters to get the most points. Things that do not gain points do not bother him. As they do bother me, I'm, well, pretty bothered.

ETA2: Yup, Mao's jumps look just as bad as Joannie's 3Lz when she was fixing hers... The technique can't be changed in a day, it usually takes about 2 seasons. TAT made a mistake of trying to fix all jumps at the same time. That's why I would prefer Mao to switch to someone who already has experience with fixing jumps.

I TOTALLY agree with hiring somebody who would dedicate at least 3 hours a day fixing her jumps. I think TAT was trying to fix ALL mao's problem in two short months, but now her flip technique is unstable and the only stable jump she has right now is the triple toe....maybe 2a. (she fell on it during ex.)
Lee Barkell is a great tech specalist.
I suggest to take tat programs and to give them to Lori Nichol. Oh yes and ditch the horrible music for the long program. everytime I listen to it I just imagine a huge vampire on a blood rampage.....

I can just imagine Mao to win Olympics. She'll probably not make HUGE improvements at nationals but probably win. At the olympics,She will probably be sitting like 3rd place after short program. 3 points off of 1st place and deliever some secret-weapon-omg-inurface program to all her critics.... one that has 2 3as, 2 3-3, 3z, 3s, x_x. :rock:

Asada says "not changing anything"

bekalc

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jenaj

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herios

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Sinnerman for the win

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Okami

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Okami

janetfan

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