Junior Grand Prix Final (December 3-6, Tokyo) | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Junior Grand Prix Final (December 3-6, Tokyo)

Binthere

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
When it comes to the Shibutanis I realize I am very partial to them :love: But to make sure I was not overlooking a good point, I checked some facts. Yes, Maia had mistakes last season but they also performed some twizzles that were not just OK but exceptional. Like any element, there can be a price paid when one "goes for it". When the girls go for the loop as the second jump in combination, to me, the risk of "going for it" never gets rewarded enough because I think it is so much harder to control or "save." But back to twizzles.

Twizzles should be synchronized and have good speed in both directions. The commentator from Junior Worlds and in France seems to think Shibutanis have that. If Maia needs to make hers go faster, then Alex sure better speed up his too :laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ONEuW7RxE&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMoZl6Ft0Ko&feature=related

What did ISU judges had to "say" with their scores. This season out of 28 possible GOEs they had 11 scores of +3. 11 more than any of the other top (I only compared with top three finishers) for juniors all season. That's a lot of judges from different countries that also judge seniors who thought they did a good job. In seniors so far, only Davis and White have scored +3.

For total points earned in comparison with what the three top seniors in the world scored this season, in original dance where twizzles have a higher base value:
Shibutanis 7.80, 7.57 points for 2 events
Davis and White 7.30 and 6.90
Virtue and Moir 6.80
Belbin and Agosto 6.00

Free dance
Shibutanis 6.80, 6.36
Davis and White 6.90 and 5.60
Virtue and Moir 6.10
Belbin and Agosto 6.50

To do well in senior will take a lot of different things for juniors to keep on improving like Mad6am3 says. Absolutely agree. And while this reply may come across to the poster as a "slap down" I truly intend no personal insult. (rolling of eyes I know. Oh well :eek:hwell:) I am a scientist now though (no longer a skater) so "unexpected findings" make me want to check facts. I also know I have loads of "blind spots" (Just ask my husband. :p) when it comes to my favorite things. (Ice cream is good for you because it is a source of calcium! :biggrin:) Shibutanis twizzles though seem to be in pretty good shape.
 

cornell08

Final Flight
Joined
May 10, 2009
Umm...because Maia has a history of falling out of her twizzles, and when she does complete them they are very cautiously done and not at all with the speed of, say, Meryl Davis. Course, they are much younger and less experienced so thats understandable. But I would NOT say Maia's twizzles are "exceptional." And I'm not singling her out either-- Madison Chock could improve her twizzles as well. They-- along with Tanith, have been sort of the "less technical" female ice dancers, when compared to Meryl or Tessa Virtue. Not saying they aren't artistic, because they are...they just are less of technical savants.
 

icedancexpert

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
I'm sorry,...:laugh:
But do you realize that you are comparing apples to oranges? Maia (15 years old, I think) to Meryl Davis (22), Tanith Belbin (25), and Tessa Virtue (20)?
I've seen videos of Meryl and Tessa when they were juniors and Maia looks to have a pretty good head start in the "technical savant" category (especially when you remember that she is 15)! I think part of this is due to "growing up" in the age of the IJS, but to be perfectly honest, I am seriously impressed by Maia.
Besides, the reason why Virtue/Moir and Davis/White have been so successful is because they are great TEAMS. Both partners complement one another so perfectly. Right now, I can't say I've seen any young up and coming ice dance teams that could match, or even better their potential/results other than the Shibutanis.
 

mishieru07

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
I love the Shibutanis too! I'm rooting for them to win JGPF, US Nats (as juniors) and Junior Worlds! :love:

I think it's a compliment that the Shibus are getting compared to V/M and D/W, both of whom are teams with outstanding technique. Sure, they're not at quite the same level yet but they're well on their way! Pretty amazing for a pair that's only in their 2nd year as Juniors internationally! Now all we need is for Maia to grow a little taller and for them to keep improving.

IIRC, Maia had a foot injury that hurt very badly at the JGPF, especially in the OD. That might have been a factor for her step out and fall. Props to the tought little cookie! :bow:

ITA about Shibus having the "IT" factor ... they charm me in the same way the young V/M does (I think their 04-05 OD is just darn cute!). So far, I loved all their programmes, especially their FD from last season. Just lovely.
 

100yen

You can't explain witchcraft
Medalist
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
ITA about Shibus having the "IT" factor ... they charm me in the same way the young V/M does (I think their 04-05 OD is just darn cute!). So far, I loved all their programmes, especially their FD from last season. Just lovely.

Firstly, I must agree with so many.... SHIBUTANIS FOR 2014!!!
:clap::clap::clap:

And secondly, I will also have to say it again even though I have said it many times before--they do simply have the "it" factor. They are technically and artistically very strong, but they also have a connection with each other and with the audience that is not tangible. They have something that can't be measured in points....spirit! :rock:

Not to mention, they have done more for the sport of ice dancing (from what I have experienced from those I have spoken to) than any other team. I am constantly talking to people who knew nothing about ice dancing or could care less for it until the Shibutanis showed up.
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I do like that duo, fell in love with them in 2008 at nationals. They were just so dang cute, all of us in the group were falling all over ourselves about them LOL

whether or not they can be credited with the most influence in ice dance remains to be seen. Can't deny that Tanith and Ben got a surge of interest [in the US] going when they showed up... especially once they started becoming serious contenders.
 

100yen

You can't explain witchcraft
Medalist
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Haha, of course I'm going to be a little biased in favor of the Shibutanis, but I think they have already started an influx in ice dancing popularity and they are only juniors. As you said, we;ll just have to wait and see what happens in the senior circuit.
I know some people that are going to JGPF specifically to see the Shibutanis, though :3 I think it's rare to see this kind of fan support behind a junior ice dancing team.

However, Tanith and Ben have done a lot for the sport. I think they are the ones who revived the ice dancing "spark" in the world.
 

penguin girl

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
[

I don't have strong feelings about the rest of the ladies (yet). Anybody here crazy about Kiri Baga? I'd love to hear reasons.[/QUOTE]

Baga is awesome but is right now having issues with the 3Lz. She still have problems getting the jumps consistent but she's got everything else.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
CUTE is the operative word for the Shibbutani's, but can they give a mature performance?

I'm not crazy about Baga since I ony enjoy mature performances. She's new to Juniors and as a sport she has done admirably winning Novice . I think this Junior contest, since she is not one of Seniors returning to Juniors, will give her just that more experience regardless of the outcome, and we can talk more about Baga as a Senior Skater some day.
 

samba

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Have any ice dance teams been penalized for the appearance on ice, for instance the huge height difference, in the past? The Shibutanis are so adorable and excellent in skating skills, however, if they skate senior, will the look on ice be their enemy? Ice dancing is the discipline that focuses so much on the appearance, just curious??
 

icedancexpert

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Different teams, with different looks have dealt with it in different ways. For instance, the Kerrs, Denkova/Stavitski, have adjusted the way they skate(d) (due to their similar height).

In terms of teams being punished for their height difference being too much?
Delobel/Schoenfelder
Dubreuil/Lauzon
(These are two teams, off the top of my head that have/have had large height differences as well) haha They achieved a certain level of success, don't you think!?
Besides...I don't even think Maia has finished growing yet! She's still young.

Especially with the direction ice dance seems to be taking--getting more athletic (look at the complexity of the lifts that teams are performing these days!) I would think that a height difference could only help them!
As for the rest of their appearance, I don't seem to think they're as "cute" anymore. When I watch their FD from last year, and their programs this year, I don't see, "CUTE." I see maturity. Maia is turning into quite the beauty and Alex is definitely no slouch. ;)
 
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Binthere

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
CUTE is the operative word for the Shibbutani's, but can they give a mature performance?

Excellent point and a key issue when precocious performers make the potentially tricky transition into "adulthood". It is evident to me though that the Shibutanis understand this well. They did an interview at the very end of the Junior Grand Prix Lake Placid free dance where they talk about how important it is for them to show progress every year with every part of their skating, including with their maturity.

For such "cuties" they could win hearts by just bouncing around to fun music, but they seem to know they have much more to offer. When they skate I find I actually stop thinking about how old they are and just enjoy how well they skate to their music. Junior Worlds last year when they were only 14 and 17 IMO showed evidence of maturity by any measure.

2009 Junior Worlds Maia and Alex Free Dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ONEuW7RxE
 

100yen

You can't explain witchcraft
Medalist
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
CUTE is the operative word for the Shibbutani's, but can they give a mature performance?

I think they've broken through that mold with last year's FD but have completely shattered it with this year's. Sure, it's easy for a tango done by younger skaters to slip into the "cute" category (such as their 2005 program...complete with arm maraca-rolls~), but this year there is so much passion and refined elegance in their programs.
As Binthere mentioned, they did an interview at the end of LPJGP where Alex said, that tangos don't always have to be romantically involved--but there is a lot of passion there.
With the OD this year, they showed they can still be energetic and upbeat and fun without being labeled as immature.
 

CourtneyNBaga

Spectator
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
A biased fan of Kiri!

I think Kiri Baga has a strong future. Remember, 8 months ago she was the cute 13-year-old Novice at nationals. It's a huge step to even be on the radar for a JGP this year, and she made the final!

She's working the lutz and just going for the experience of Tokyo- no expectations at coming in the top for sure unless the others make a window for her or she blows herself away (again?)

Keep in mind, too, that she's the youngest there and the only one who is still competing Junior back at home. Her presentation has already done most of them in. I love the unique take that Kelly Benzinger-Grelle and Kiri developed out of Carmen. Definitely not the everyday performance which, in my opinion, is looking boring on the seniors who are doing less with it!
 

Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Keep in mind, too, that she's the youngest there and the only one who is still competing Junior back at home.

She is not the youngest there, Polina Shelepen is even younger (was born in july 1995) ;) Anyway, I like Kiri's style and wish her all the best, but I think it will be hard for her to compete with Murakami, Shelepen (she is going to do 3-3 and 2A-3T in her long program and she is consistant) and Ksenia Makarova (she had very strong performance at Coupe de Nice with clean 3-3), but anything is possible if she will skate clean. As for me, I cheer for Polina Shelepen :thumbsup:

P.S. Sad that Polina Agafonova didn't qualify to the JGPF, she did clean and fully rotated 3Lz-3T last week at the local competition
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
It might be Kiri's first year on the JGP - but she's not the youngest and it isn't her 1st year of ISU eligibility. Shelepen and Ovcharova are both younger. Murakami is some months older, but she's technically the same age for ISU purposes.

I like Kiri a lot and think she (along with Ovcharova) have the best choreographed SPs in the field, but it will be hard for her to compete technically with Shelepen and Murakami in the LP, because the harder jumps aren't very consistent for her. I think Shelepen has scored around 15 pts higher than Kiri in the LP alone this year.

For the record, the JGPF ladies participants in order of age, oldest to youngest:

Angela Maxwell 28.07.1992
Ksenia Makarova 20.12.1992
Ellie Kawamura 27.11.1993
Christina Gao 07.03.1994
Kanako Murakami 07.11.1994
Kiri Baga 15.04.1995
Polina Shelepen 28.07.1995
Anna Ovcharova 16.04.1996

On a final note, Anna Ovcharova has been doing really well since her JGP success - she won the senior ladies competition at the first Cup of Russia event with 153.21 and won the juniors ladies event at the third Russia Cup with 144.60. She's qualified for both junior and senior nationals (though she already had by making the JGPF)
 

life684

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
She is not the youngest there, Polina Shelepen is even younger (was born in july 1995) ;) Anyway, I like Kiri's style and wish her all the best, but I think it will be hard for her to compete with Murakami, Shelepen (she is going to do 3-3 and 2A-3T in her long program and she is consistant) and Ksenia Makarova (she had very strong performance at Coupe de Nice with clean 3-3), but anything is possible if she will skate clean. As for me, I cheer for Polina Shelepen :thumbsup:

P.S. Sad that Polina Agafonova didn't qualify to the JGPF, she did clean and fully rotated 3Lz-3T last week at the local competition

Polina Agafonova and Anna Ovcharova are very unpredictable. Polina can perform one good sp and then blow it in LP and vice-versa. even in Kazan where she landed 3Lz+3T in Lp , she had very bad SP.
Polina Agafonova Lp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leDGVMzeCGo

As for Ovcharova, her landing can be very shaky, though she rotates her jumps.

But the sheer number of highly talented Russian junior and novice skaters is puzzling, every 2 or 3 month a new face steps up their performances and joins the ones to watch out for 2014. I think Belarus and Ukrainian skating federation must be very happy to see so many gifted Russian skaters ;).
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Dance participants in the JGPF:
http://www.isuresults.com/events/jgp2009/jgpsdance.htm

1 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI USA 15 15 30 1 347.94 2 168.58 85.51 110.64 34
2 Ksenia MONKO / Kirill KHALIAVIN RUS 15 15 30 1 340.80 2 163.59 84.33 109.43 34
3 Elena ILYINIKH / Nikita KATSALAPOV RUS 15 15 30 1 337.67 2 164.06 82.56 104.49 32
4 Ekaterina PUSHKASH / Jonathan GUERREIRO RUS 15 13 28 1 319.76 2 149.47 81.67 102.76 38
5 Kharis RALPH / Asher HILL CAN 13 13 26 2 314.27 2 151.15 76.36 100.59 34
6 Lorenza ALESSANDRINI / Simone VATURI ITA 11 13 24 2 297.65 2 143.11 75.77 94.84 39
7 Marina ANTIPOVA / Artem KUDASHEV RUS 13 9 22 2 300.59 2 145.29 75.59 93.15 35
8 Isabella CANNUSCIO / Ian LORELLO USA 11 11 22 3 299.36 2 144.89 74.88 92.80 31

PLACE 9 - 11: SUBSTITUTE FOR THE ISU JUNIOR GRAND PRIX OF FIGURE SKATING FINAL

9 Karen ROUTHIER / Eric SAUCKE-LACELLE CAN 13 7 20 2 295.60 2 138.86 71.46 93.36 35
10 Alisa AGAFONOVA / Dmitri DUN UKR 11 9 20 3 299.97 2 148.04 76.52 92.99 34
11 Tatiana BATURINTSEVA / Ivan VOLOBUIEV RUS 9 11 20 3 294.29 2 146.19 74.60 88.38 36
 
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