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Thread: Ladies SP - 3:55 am Eastern Time Friday

  1. #301
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    I've watched Mirai, Rachael and Carolina;
    Mirai: I'm not a fan; but her jumps looked secure; ina bauer and double axel were brilliant; she has good flexibility and thus hits some very nice positions. The footwork is still too cutesy for my liking, but maybe it works in real life...

    Carolina: I hope she wins!! I was never much of a fan; I think seeing her in real life two weeks agao made me convinced that she is a beautiful skater. She has actually really nice posture on the ice. She's very balletic for one so tall! I could barely recognize the program! Once she realized she was nailing the jumps, she looked so happy and threw her heart in the performance; lovely to see!

    Rachael: the youtube vid didn't show the part where she apparantly cried; but all I can say is; what the hell have you to cry about? Okay the performance wasn't perfect; but it's still early in the season. Look at the score, not the placement; you got a higher score than Ashley last week who was perfect other than the edge deduction on the lutz! I think she's expecting too much of herself. She seems to want perfection every time she hits the ice; that is in itself a good attitude of course, but she shouldn't get so worked up about every tiny mistake. At this point in the competition and with her score; she hasn't lost anything!

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Someone said earlier that the Tech controller was Finnish. What?? How did that happen??? If there were no Finnish ladies in the event, it would be fine but aren't the TPTB aware of the potential conflict of interest here??
    All ISU officials are from somewhere. Would it be better if the technical controller were from the USA or Japan or Canada?

    Plus, it is not the Technical Controller that has the primary responsibility for calling underrotations, wrong edges, etc. That is the Technical Specialist -- in this case, Simon Briggs from Great Britain, aided by Technical Assistant Robyn Burley of Australia.

    Here is the list of the ISU judges, technical specialists, etc. It would be inmpossible to find panels where all the officials were from countries that had no skater in the contest.

    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1515
    Last edited by Mathman; 10-30-2009 at 05:00 PM.

  3. #303
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    MM: my point is, the Tech controller/officials should be from a country NOT represented in the competitive roster. (IMO)

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    MM: my point is, the Tech controller should be from a country NOT represented in the competitive roster. (IMO)
    But the trouble with that is that then the technical controllers from the major countries would never have an assignment. There is no major ISU event that does not have skaters from USA in every discipline, for instance. And what about the Olympics? Who would serve?

    Also, the Technical Controller does not really do anything. He or she does not judge, give out scores, or make calls (although the Technical Specialist who does make the call can consult with the Technical Specialist in the case of a controversial call). As I understand it, the job of the technical controller is to see that all goes forward according to the rules. A judge has a lot more opprtunity to show bias or favoritism than the Technical Controller does.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlining View Post
    What a performance by Mirai.

    America, there's your money right there.

    It's not going to be Ashley, Caroline, Rachael or Alexe. (Sorry ladies, I love you all, but I just don't see the "kwan" (not Michelle, but that thing Cuba Gooding Jr. was talking about in Jerry Maguire) in you girls.)

    Mirai has the athleticism, artistry, personality and charisma needed to create a champion.

    I placed my bet a couple of seasons ago when I saw her win silver medal in Junior Worlds in 07, finishing behind Caroline by a narrow margin. It was painful to see her struggle in her first senior circuit last season, but she's matured a lot in a year and looks like a million dollars.

    She just needs to refine her jumps and keep doing programs that suit her.

    No matter what happens tomorrow at LP, she's going to have a realistic shot at a Worlds title in a couple of years and compete for OGM in Sochi.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trewyn View Post
    Rachael: the youtube vid didn't show the part where she apparantly cried...
    Wait...Rachel cried?? Who said that? And when did this supposedly happen? I watched the skate on Ice network and while she didn't look too thrilled in the K&C, I didn't see any indication that she was about to cry. She's only a few points behind the leader, and it's only her first event of the season so I don't think she should be too upset.
    Last edited by R.D.; 10-30-2009 at 05:34 PM.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    But the trouble with that is that then the technical controllers from the major countries would never have an assignment. There is no major ISU event that does not have skaters from USA in every discipline, for instance. And what about the Olympics? Who would serve?

    Also, the Technical Controller does not really do anything. He or she does not judge, give out scores, or make calls (although the Technical Specialist who does make the call can consult with the Technical Specialist in the case of a controversial call). As I understand it, the job of the technical controller is to see that all goes forward according to the rules. A judge has a lot more opprtunity to show bias or favoritism than the Technical Controller does.
    You know, I think about it and it's really unfortunate. I think it would only be fair to the competitors to have the team that has their fate in their hands to judge as honestly (and consistently!) as possible and to have no conflicts of interest. Or, if it's not possible to avoid conflicts of interest in certain cases, institute some sort of "check and balance" system that ensures and re-enforces fair judging. Such a system would take time to devise but off the top of my head, one suggestion is that I think the judging process (not just the result) could be made accessible to the skaters and the audience. I'm on the fence about whether allowing "player challenges" (e.g. for a controversial downgrade call) would be a good experiment or not.

    ETA: Then again, this still underscores the fact that presentation marks, a highly subjective portion of the skating, are still counted and factored into the total score.
    Last edited by R.D.; 10-30-2009 at 05:42 PM.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Also, the Technical Controller does not really do anything. He or she does not judge, give out scores, or make calls (although the Technical Specialist who does make the call can consult with the Technical Specialist in the case of a controversial call). As I understand it, the job of the technical controller is to see that all goes forward according to the rules. A judge has a lot more opprtunity to show bias or favoritism than the Technical Controller does.
    Correct. The Technical Specialist is the one that is primarily in charge - identifies the elements, levels, downgrades, falls, etc. There also is an Assistant Technical Specalist who makes calls. The Technical Controller is for lack of a better would the supervisor and if there is a disagreement between the Specialist and Assistant Specialist the Controller breaks the tie.

    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I think it would only be fair to the competitors to have the team that has their fate in their hands to judge as honestly (and consistently!) as possible and to have no conflicts of interest. Or, if it's not possible to avoid conflicts of interest in certain cases, institute some sort of "check and balance" system that ensures and re-enforces fair judging. Such a system would take time to devise but off the top of my head, one suggestion is that I think the judging process (not just the result) could be made accessible to the skaters and the audience. I'm on the fence about whether allowing "player challenges" (e.g. for a controversial downgrade call) would be a good experiment or not.
    Why should the audience be involved in the process? In other sports we are not provided with the information that is discussed between referees. There needs to be boundaries between the audience and judges. Being able to "challenge" a controversial call is a disaster waiting to happen and this would drag the event on and on.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Being able to "challenge" a controversial call is a disaster waiting to happen and this would drag the event on and on.
    That's what I was thinking- that it would stretch an already long judging process even longer. There'd have to be restrictions on the amount and types of calls that could be challenged. That's why I'm on the fence about it.

    As for the audience being involved, no they would not be "involved". Just informed. Show more closeups and replays of (questionable) jump landings and other elements that are marked so it can be seen much more clearly whether a jump was underrotated or not. I don't mean showing all the details.

    The skaters and coaches, however- different story IMHO. Do the skaters currently see only the TES, PCS and total score? If they do, I think they should see everything (i.e. the entire scoring sheet). Maybe not at once, but immediately after. Currently you have to dig in the ISU archives to find them but I think it should be out in the open for all to see.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    The skaters and coaches, however- different story IMHO. Do the skaters currently see only the TES, PCS and total score? If they do, I think they should see everything (i.e. the entire scoring sheet). Maybe not at once, but immediately after. Currently you have to dig in the ISU archives to find them but I think it should be out in the open for all to see.
    Skaters are given their scoring sheet after the competition is completed. They also have the opportunity to talk to the judges. Skaters also know when a jump is under-rotated and when it is fully rotated - it feels different. BTW, the protocals are posted on the ISU website right after the event is completed. Anyone can view them on there.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Skaters are given their scoring sheet after the competition is completed. They also have the opportunity to talk to the judges.
    OK thanks. I wasn't sure.

  12. #312
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    About home country judging, under the old 6.0 system there were no "technical specialists," etc., only the judges. Each judge represented his or her own national federation. The raison d'etre of the national federations was and is, by hook or by crook, to secure the highest possible placement and the most medals for skaters from their country.

    As Philippe Candeloro (bronze medallist at the 1994 and 1998 Olympics) famously said, "Of course the French federation makes deals. If we didn't, we would never win any medals at all."

    The CoP was supposedly Cinquanta's attempt at wrenching some of the power away from the inevitably biased and unscrupulous national federations and placing it instead securely in the hands of the virtuous and well-intentioned ISU. Out of the frying pan, as it were.

    So the idea was that the Technical Controller, Technical Specialist and Technical Assistant would be appointed directly by the ISU and would work directly for Speedy, not for their individual national federations.

    So -- there you go.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by SusieH View Post
    It seems that one of Kostner's spin sequences was counted as invalid. That's what I read from a Chinese skating forum.
    I'm feeling very confused now. In the same forum someone later mentioned that it was actually her spiral sequence that received zero point: she failed to hold a position for more than three seconds. (But I assume in that case what is being affected is the level?)

    Anyway, one thing is for sure. One (or two) of her elements was marked as invalid, thus the lower than usual score. Whatever it is, I'm sure her team was already aware of this and will try to fix it.
    Last edited by SusieH; 10-30-2009 at 09:46 PM.

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    For all you Jenny Kirk fans out there, she's got more success to be happy about. She is the analyst for the women's event at Cup of China on Universal Sports this week. The are showing the ladies short right now and will re-air tomorrow from 1-3 ET. Based on what NBC did last week with Paul Wylie, there's a decent chance her analysis will be used on Sunday's broadcast on that network as well.

    The use of this rotating group of analysts makes me wonder if these are some sort of auditions for any openings on NBC's Olympic broadcast team.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoates View Post
    For all you Jenny Kirk fans out there, she's got more success to be happy about. She is the analyst for the women's event at Cup of China on Universal Sports this week. The are showing the ladies short right now and will re-air tomorrow from 1-3 ET. Based on what NBC did last week with Paul Wylie, there's a decent chance her analysis will be used on Sunday's broadcast on that network as well.
    There is actually NO China coverage on NBC this weekend. It's all Universal. NBC resumes next week with Japan.

    Kirk has tweeted saying that she did editing work for Universal a couple weeks back so she must have been part of the studio team all along, and now they're giving her a turn at the mic it seems.
    Last edited by R.D.; 10-31-2009 at 12:34 AM.

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