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Thread: Ladies LP 2:00 AM Eastern Time Saturday

  1. #301
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Watch Joannie's toe-pick...it leaves the ice just about 1/2 of a rotation into the jump.
    Yes, that's a proper toe loop. Not quite sure what you're saying...

  2. #302
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    I think Akiko Suzuki is an inspiration to people everywhere. She suffered from an extremely difficult disease and is in remission. I have had numerous friends suffer from eating disorders and some recover and some do not. It is a disease that no medication can fix. Each day is a struggle for the sufferers. I love that Akiko has overcome this disease and is back skating at the elite level, and excelling no less. Negative comments about physical appearance contribute to the occurrence of eating disorders in the first place. I think Akiko is a beautiful person inside and out and we should applaud her for her inner strength at overcoming a debilitating disease. Talk about a person who obviously loves to skate. She oozes joy while she's performing.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingbc View Post
    I think Akiko Suzuki is an inspiration to people everywhere. She suffered from an extremely difficult disease and is in remission. I have had numerous friends suffer from eating disorders and some recover and some do not. It is a disease that no medication can fix. Each day is a struggle for the sufferers. I love that Akiko has overcome this disease and is back skating at the elite level, and excelling no less. Negative comments about physical appearance contribute to the occurrence of eating disorders in the first place. I think Akiko is a beautiful person inside and out and we should applaud her for her inner strength at overcoming a debilitating disease. Talk about a person who obviously loves to skate. She oozes joy while she's performing.

    I couldn't agree more. That's why I originally commented on the poster who said Akiko has an "objectively homely face". Not only is that so untrue, I think if you think that, you should keep it to yourself. Akiko is such a joy to watch.

  4. #304
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingbc View Post
    I think Akiko Suzuki is an inspiration to people everywhere. She suffered from an extremely difficult disease and is in remission. I have had numerous friends suffer from eating disorders and some recover and some do not. It is a disease that no medication can fix. Each day is a struggle for the sufferers. I love that Akiko has overcome this disease and is back skating at the elite level, and excelling no less. Negative comments about physical appearance contribute to the occurrence of eating disorders in the first place. I think Akiko is a beautiful person inside and out and we should applaud her for her inner strength at overcoming a debilitating disease. Talk about a person who obviously loves to skate. She oozes joy while she's performing.
    I just love her freeskate. Perfect chreography, lovely jumps, nice spins and sprials. So nice to see an underdog win too.

    Joannie's freeskate, despite the mistakes was breathtaking. She completely became the character.

    Poor Mirai. I thought for sure she would skate perfectly and win by 10 points. I didn't really see the underroattion on the first lutz, but agree that most of her jumps after that were cheated. Such a pity.

    I like Racheal's program, but it was not skated that well...and she knew it.

    Carolina. Again good program but the jumps not there.

  5. #305
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    I'm...one of those people who believe certain standards of beauty are objective (in our species.) Some men and women will be considered "attractive" across a wider set of societies, cultures, and individuals than other men and women; likewise, some men and women will be considered "ugly" more often.

    However, I am frankly startled to hear someone thinks Akiko Suzuki is "homely". The thought never crossed my mind. I think she's quite attractive and has well-proportioned features. Clear, even skin; large soft eyes; positive demeanor...

    Weird!

    (Then again, I'm one of those people who believe there are many different ways in which people can be attractive. So yes, there is some subjectivity within broader, objective standards.)

  6. #306
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I'm...one of those people who believe certain standards of beauty are objective (in our species.) Some men and women will be considered "attractive" across a wider set of societies, cultures, and individuals than other men and women; likewise, some men and women will be considered "ugly" more often.

    However, I am frankly startled to hear someone thinks Akiko Suzuki is "homely". The thought never crossed my mind. I think she's quite attractive and has well-proportioned features. Clear, even skin; large soft eyes; positive demeanor...

    Weird!
    ITA! I love the way the corners of her mouth turn up when she smiles. Maybe she's one of those people who BECOME beautiful when they perform. I remember being shocked to find that the ballerina Suzanne Farrell off stage and out of makeup was quite ordinary looking. Onstage she was incomparable! There are many other examples. So I don't even know if the off-ice Akiko Suzuki is pretty, all I can say is that the skater Akiko Suzuki is adorable.

    (Then again, I'm one of those people who believe there are many different ways in which people can be attractive. So yes, there is some subjectivity within broader, objective standards.)
    Many different kinds of attractiveness does not necessarily imply subjectivity. Objective beauty may have a wider range than most individuals can perceive. I'd just like to help uphold the idea of objective truth.

  7. #307
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    Oh goodness. The word "toe-axel" makes me laugh, especially when people start analyzing it and talking about it like it's a real jump or something. Do judges even use that term?

    So the nature of the toe loop jump makes skaters rotate a little bit on the ice, because it takes off a back right outside edge and the left toe picks in and you're open in the direction of rotation. Now some skaters have more or less of this "pre-rotation" (ugh I hate hate that term too because so many people misuse it). Some skaters turn too much before the takeoff, in which case the jump is being improperly done. Mao Asada used to do that, and Kimmie Meissner had a huge case of that (even on her double toes if I remember correctly).

    When I do triple toes, I try to turn as less as possible before takeoff because I've found that this helps with getting height on the jump; the way I do it, it's kind of like holding your body against the position of rotation and that helps you "snap" up into the jump. Skaters who turn too much prior to takeoff usually get less height on the jump.

  8. #308
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    What a fascinating question. I think about an aspect of it whenever an international beauty contest such as Miss Universe comes on the TV. I'm always struck by the fact that although the ladies come from many different countries, they look so much alike--tall, long-limbed, slim of course, but amazingly similar face shapes and hairstyles. Is that an example of some sort of objective truth about beauty, or just the triumph of advertising-generated standards, which most of us and even many skaters wouldn't be able to live up to? (And thank goodness we wouldn't--vive la difference!)

    I don't know how a philosopher would answer the question of objective beauty, but generally what I've read seems to suggest that symmetry of features, whether Asian, African, or Caucasian, is appreciated everywhere. For women, a long, slim neck seems to be universally admired, but I don't think it's a crucial element. An attractive smile with pretty teeth is certainly valued everywhere, whether lips are thin or full. Well-shaped cheekbones and thick hair (whether straight, curly, or African) also contribute. I think experts talk of features proportioned according to the Golden Ratio...maybe that's a factor. The cool thing is that these days, because all we know about people around the world, most people's standards of beauty are much broader than they would have been in any part of the world a century ago.

  9. #309
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    Do you know that people suspect that anxiety when confronted with spiders and snakes is actually inherited to some extend?

    If there is something objective about beauty, then I think, it is also inherited. But I think that would only concern really disfigured people. Lots of chromosomal disorders are connected to facial disfigurement, when I had human genetics I always cringed, when the professor described the malformed faces of the different syndromes. It seemed like such a superficial way, but is of course important on the route to a diagnosis that ultimately is going to help the parents / child.

    So some facial characteristics can throw us off, but I think those have to be extreme. It's a probably a natural reflex to consider a person with very a asymmetrical face or other extremely rare facial characteristics - to be less worthy, especially as a potential mate or as an individual who might be physically or mentally weak and therefore might weaken a group.

    That said, we are not living in caves anymore, and that's what I am telling people if they keep staring or keep spewing nonsense about "look at his eyes" "look at that weird neck". I respect that you can be thrown off, but if it takes more than 2 seconds to regain the composure - I am seriously miffed. I hate it if a nurse e.g. can't get a grip while taking care of a disfigured patient.

    or just the triumph of advertising-generated standards, which most of us and even many skaters wouldn't be able to live up to?
    Advertising-generated standards, I am quite sure of that. I remember when we had the history of the Aborigines at school, and the kids in my class just couldn't stop making fun of their faces - not because they are ugly, but because they are really different from the way the average German Hans and Liesel look. And throughout the history of mankind there were so many beauty standards that had nothing to do with what is hip at Miss Universe these days.

  10. #310
    Down With It
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    If there is something objective about beauty, then I think, it is also inherited. But I think that would only concern really disfigured people. Lots of chromosomal disorders are connected to facial disfigurement, when I had human genetics I always cringed, when the professor described the malformed faces of the different syndromes. It seemed like such a superficial way, but is of course important on the route to a diagnosis that ultimately is going to help the parents / child.
    That was what I was getting at, actually. There are, of course, outlying standards (a regular-looking person) and then from there on out, it's ALL subjective...

  11. #311
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Yes, that's a proper toe loop. Not quite sure what you're saying...
    I was saying exactly that.

    -----

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I don't know how a philosopher would answer the question of objective beauty, but generally what I've read seems to suggest that symmetry of features, whether Asian, African, or Caucasian, is appreciated everywhere. For women, a long, slim neck seems to be universally admired, but I don't think it's a crucial element. An attractive smile with pretty teeth is certainly valued everywhere, whether lips are thin or full. Well-shaped cheekbones and thick hair (whether straight, curly, or African) also contribute.
    Thank you for seeing the point I was making and actually adding to the discussion rather than simply saying "OMG, that's so [politically uncorrect]."

    There is definitely such a thing as societal norms for attractiveness. If we were all forced to sit down and grade the attractiveness of random people on a scale of 1 to 10, certain people would have a higher score than others.

    It has been proven in studies that people who are physically more attractive have, on average, more successful careers.

    I believe this certainly comes into play in Figure Skating. We can all have an opinion on this, but I personally feel that Suzuki's features are not admired nearly as much as others'.

    It makes a difference in the judging and (I've talked about this before) it comes down to sex appeal. If people desire you, they are going to want to go out of their way to help you and prop you up.

  12. #312
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    I just think it's a bit inconsiderate to even discuss a girl's look when she's just recovered from an eating disorder.

    It's also weird that anyone ever specifically picks on Akiko's look, when we have been polite enough to refrain from talking about other skaters' looks. (I can think of many skaters who are less pretty than Akiko, but I've never cared.)

  13. #313
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I was saying exactly that.
    Oh good! I'm glad we are on the same page

  14. #314
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    After watching joannies's lp i think she did pretty well and still performed it. I really enjoyed Akiko and her west side story; i think its cute watch out miki and yukari. After watching Mirai again I think it might be stamina issues instead of technique proablems since it was the jumps in the second half that were UR.

  15. #315
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    As I see how much Mirai has grown, I wouldn't think it the end of world if she struggles a little for a year or two.

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