Countdown to Sasha's Return | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Countdown to Sasha's Return

Tango_D_R

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
^ Mathman.

Wow.. what are the odds? :eek:

This is more like a movie than history :laugh:


BTW how can you remember all these stuffs?? A true Mathepedia you are :bow:

Anyway, your whole posts about history has been a *huge* help for me.. thank you very much :agree:
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Mirai, I think, especially has room for improvement ... if she can stay healthy and motivated.
As I recall, the three medalist at Turin were all over 20. I believe Sasha was the youngest.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
As all the ladies are, more or less equal, they will pick the top two to avoid the HUGE outburst that will follow if they don't.

I completely agree with this. In terms of the "brownie" points some of the ladies supposedly have, they are all only mildly impressive and, IMO, kind of cancel each other out.
Rachael Flatt - made last year's world team. Finished 5th. Very respectable for sure but it's not amazing. Her coach said they are aiming to win Nationals because that would definitely guarantee her a trip to Vancouver, suggesting, I guess, that finishing second would not. But frankly, if Flatt wins silver, I don't see how they can deny her, even if she bombs at Skate America, which i doubt.
Caroline Zhang. Fourth at Four Continents. I just don't see that as much of a brownie point, sorry. I mean good for her and everything but if Zhang finishes third or lower at nationals, are they going to say yeah, America, but we're sending Zhang anyway b/c she finished FOURTH at four continents? I seriously doubt it.
Alissa Czisny. No matter what anyone says she IS the reigning national champion. If she wins or manages a silver, I don't see how they can deny her either.

And Mirai and Ashley are simply just as good or even better than all the above if they perform to their potential, as Ashley has already shown this season at the GP.

p.s. to "I love to Skate" about Sasha Cohen. I do know that among my friends, none of them has the faintest idea who any of the above mentioned ladies are. Heck, they don't even know who Kim Yu-na is. But they DO know who Sasha Cohen is ... I don't know if that means she would draw casual viewers to the TV but just thought I'd mention it.

Edit : The point is that Sasha does not have any brownie points - zero, zip, nada, nichts, arc cosine of 1. Even if she wins Nats, she may, and may not, make the Olympic team.

Sasha IS one big brownie point. I don't have much hope of her making it to nationals. But if she does and if she wins, no WAY are they not sending her.
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I don't think Rachael will be around for 2014. She is intellectually brilliant and will almost certainly start college, if not next year, then shortly thereafter.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't think Rachael will be around for 2014. She is intellectually brilliant and will almost certainly start college, if not next year, then shortly thereafter.

I agree- she's a) the least likely to continue and b) she's probably hit her peak in skating already, and if not now, certainly after this season.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I agree- she's a) the least likely to continue and b) she's probably hit her peak in skating already, and if not now, certainly after this season.

Alissa will be gone or a non-factor, Caroline needs big changes or she will definitely be "out princessed" by the new "princesses" waiting in the wings.

Mirai has to also fix problems but I think she has a chance. Same with Ashley.

If we have three spots back is it really unrealistic to think a couple of spots will be taken by a newer group of ladies? Is our future so bleak a skater better than Ashley or Mirai will not emerge in the next 2-3 years?

Gosh, I really hope not/

I don't mean that in any way to promote young gilrs being better - I strictly am talking about technical problems so apparent in our current group of ladies.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Sorry, Janetfan, I don't agree with this. Skaters more talented than Ashley and Mirai? I think they're two of the most talented and most fun to watch in the world, and they have a lot of skating left in them, since both are healthy, if they want to. And I hope they do. I really don't think they come a lot more talented than this.

There are other factors too, after all - work, money, injury, the competition, etc.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Czisny has been around FOREVER it seems...she's definitely been a late-bloomer thus far (or is it that there are no more consistent skaters to keep her back??) She had a disaster in the 2006 Nats after a breakout GP season. This year, it's just been OK- we'll have to see how she does at SC- but (assuming Cohen is out for good) I think her Olympic chances will never be this good ever again...that's a lot of pressure that she can't handle.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Sorry, Janetfan, I don't agree with this. Skaters more talented than Ashley and Mirai? I think they're two of the most talented and most fun to watch in the world, and they have a lot of skating left in them, since both are healthy, if they want to. And I hope they do. I really don't think they come a lot more talented than this.

There are other factors too, after all - work, money, injury, the competition, etc.

Good points and I particularly agree about Mirai and Ashley. Heck, I really like watching Caroline and Alissa too.

But I look at Yuna - and see that as the direction to shoot for. I would be disappointed if Mirai and Ashley were the best we can hope for.
I say that remembering when US ladies set the standard and were not chasing it - and from so far behind.

Maybe Yuna is one of those once in a generation skaters that comes along and not the best skater to use for a comparison. But i think Dick Button pretty much said the same thing......our current Ladies are just not in the mix. I don't want to base my hopes on Yuna retiring, Mao remaining in a funk, etc. I would like to see the whole level of quality greatly advanced so that is why I look to future skaters.

I support our girls, I actually admire and love them .....but see nothing wrong with hoping for an impact skater to come along soon.

Tenley, Carol, Peggy, Janet, Dorothy, Kristy, Michelle, I will throw Sasha in.
At the moment it feels out of place to add Ashley and Mirai or the others to such a list.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
But I look at Yuna - and see that as the direction to shoot for. I would be disappointed if Mirai and Ashley were the best we can hope for.
I say that remembering when US ladies set the standard and were not chasing it - and from so far behind.

I agree. It's really disappointing to think about.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I could be wrong now, but I don't think so. (Monk fans will recognize this line!) From what I've read, Yu Na's success doesn't represent talent alone. There is a vast amount of single-minded work. I'm not sure any American skaters work that hard.

I think that if either Ashley or Mirai dedicated herself singlemindedly to skating, with the team effort and national pressure and support that Yu Na has (and let's not forget her amazing, single-minded diet :p), their results would shoot up too. But American parents tend to want their children to be happy as much as they want them to succeed. JMO.

But then of course there's Kwan. How the heck did she do it? Talent or work? Or both? Or something else?
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Janetfan, I agree. Maybe YuNa is a once-in-a-generation skater. But it's entirely fair to compare our skaters to her. After all, what do we want? If we want skaters who are "good enough," we have that already. If we want a skater who will stand above the others (there's a podium-position pun in there!), shouldn't we see excellence like YuNa's as a goal?

Your comment about not basing our hopes on YuNa retiring, or Mao remaining stagnant has another angle. In a very real way, YuNa and Mao are our skaters, too, because skating fandom transcends national pride. (Look at all the Yagudin fans from almost every corner of the world.) Sure, we'd like "the best in skating" to be from (fill in your country's name here). But when skaters as spectacular as YuNa and Mao (at her peak) show up, they belong not just to a country but to skating itself. So although I'm a proud backer of American skaters, I fervently hope that YuNa will NOT retire, and that Mao will once again float like a butterfly, as another sports legend once said. (But to very different music next year!)

By the way, Mathman, thanks for the glimpse into skating history. I had forgotten all that, but now that you mention the way she saved the day in terms of audience and ticket sales, it rings a bell. I suppose it's one more reason Michelle is so popular in skating: she was always a good sport and never seemed to mope about "the one that got away"--either in 1998 or in 2002. Whatever crown she had in the Kingdom of Skating, she wore it graciously.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I could be wrong now, but I don't think so. (Monk fans will recognize this line!) From what I've read, Yu Na's success doesn't represent talent alone. There is a vast amount of single-minded work. I'm not sure any American skaters work that hard.

I think that if either Ashley or Mirai dedicated herself singlemindedly to skating, with the team effort and national pressure and support that Yu Na has (and let's not forget her amazing, single-minded diet :p), their results would shoot up too. But American parents tend to want their children to be happy as much as they want them to succeed. JMO.

But then of course there's Kwan. How the heck did she do it? Talent or work? Or both? Or something else?

I think your views are as good as mine and Monk's are better! :).

Button did point at the USA Ladies work ethic which he found lacking.

There is also a thing called "talent." Something given by God, in Yuna;s case, the skating Gods :)

Is doesn't matter how hard Michelle worked, she would never have achieved as much without a certain natural aptitude for skating - or perhaps something else that requires similar gifts. :yes:

I will never shortchange the hard work skaters put in. Surely there are skaters who work so hard (Evan) and maybe don't have as much natural talent (Yagudin) as others.

Also, I think what the USA must address now is all the 3x3's little girls can do without proper technique. It comes back to slap you hard once you grow - and that is why I am hoping the next gen will be trained better and with this in mind.

I think Yuna could do most of the triples when she was very young. She has managed to keep them and that has to do with good technique and not just training hard or having a special diet. It also is reflective of a special talent. :bow:
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I think your views are as good as mine and Monk's are better! :).

Button did point at the USA Ladies work ethic which he found lacking.

There is also a thing called "talent." Something given by God, in Yuna;s case, the skating Gods :)

Is doesn't matter how hard Michelle worked, she would never have achieved as much without a certain natural aptitude for skating - or perhaps something else that requires similar gifts. :yes:

I will never shortchange the hard work skaters put in. Surely there are skaters who work so hard (Evan) and maybe don't have as much natural talent (Yagudin) as others.

Also, I think what the USA must address now is all the 3x3's little girls can do without proper technique. It comes back to slap you hard once you grow - and that is why I am hoping the next gen will be trained better and with this in mind.

I think Yuna could do most of the triples when she was very young. She has managed to keep them and that has to do with good technique and not just training hard or having a special diet. It also is reflective of a special talent. :bow:
I would never deny that Yu Na has a giant special talent. It's just that Mirai looks incredibly naturally gifted to me too, and so does Ashley albeit in a different way - with her it's more her style that bowls me over, but she also has big physical gifts.

That's why I move to sheer work to explain why they don't have Yu Na's results - esp. since we know how hard Yu Na has worked to get where she is.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I would never deny that Yu Na has a giant special talent. It's just that Mirai looks incredibly naturally gifted to me too, and so does Ashley albeit in a different way - with her it's more her style that bowls me over, but she also has big physical gifts.

That's why I move to sheer work to explain why they don't have Yu Na's results - esp. since we know how hard Yu Na has worked to get where she is.

I agree with you Spun.
And I think Mirai is an absolute charmer on the ice. :love:
It is also easy to see Ashley has improved and I think she is looking more like a senior skater than our other young Ladies.

Ashley could have won both of her GP event's this season and I am disappointed that she seems lacking in competitive nerve or concentration - or whatever it might be. I think she might do the same thing at Natls and if she does she won't make the Olympic team.

I have no idea which of the Ladies will emerge at Natls and skate well enough to nail down the coveted trip to Vancouver. I doubt that whoever it is will be much of a factor unless they are able to raise their game..
 

Phoenix347

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
I've heard an interesting quote from an old coach of Yuna; he said the weakness of many gifted skaters is that they're lazy because it comes easy to them but Yuna had both talent and tremendous drive for perfection. While I think Mirai Nagasu is very talented, I don't think she has the drive like Yuna. I also don't know how serious Sasha is about her come back. She should have started much earlier if she was serious. I agree with people who say she might be having injury problems because she trying to do too much in too short of a time period. It will be interesting to see if she shows up at nationals. I just hope that she doesn't ask for a bye after missing the nationals.
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
It will be interesting to see if she shows up at nationals. I just hope that she doesn't ask for a bye after missing the nationals.

I believe Sasha has one more bye in her entire life - and that's the one to Nationals.
The USFSA must be pretty fed up by now.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
I could be wrong now, but I don't think so. (Monk fans will recognize this line!) From what I've read, Yu Na's success doesn't represent talent alone.
OK, but whose success is pure talent?

There is a vast amount of single-minded work. I'm not sure any American skaters work that hard.
Please elaborate on this "single-mindedness" that YuNa so especially has, and what "diverse" or "multi-mindedness" that the American skaters have. For all I know (and I'm just a biased YuNa fan, after all), YuNa used to excel at school, she loves to shop, blog and browse on the internet, has learned the piano (well, what Asian child doesn't :p), enjoys singing, and she's curious about the world and has said if she lived another life she may not choose figure skating (because she's interested in photography? and seeing the rest of the world for herself.)

I think that if either Ashley or Mirai dedicated herself singlemindedly to skating, with the team effort and national pressure and support that Yu Na has (and let's not forget her amazing, single-minded diet :p), their results would shoot up too.
Sorry, but Mirai has already said that she thinks her main talent is Figure Skating and is probably "single-mindedly" dedicated to Figure Skating, too. Contrary to Phoenix347, I think Mirai does work very hard and may pull away from the other American ladies in due time.

But American parents tend to want their children to be happy as much as they want them to succeed. JMO.
It's JMO that that is one of the most culturally bigoted comments I've ever seen on this board. But now that I think about it...hmm, YuNa does look rather miserable and unhappy!

But then of course there's Kwan. How the heck did she do it? Talent or work? Or both? Or something else?
Probably both. Like most top-anythings.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I believe Sasha has one more bye in her entire life - and that's the one to Nationals.
The USFSA must be pretty fed up by now.

As a Sasha fan I would say you make a good point. :agree:

If this were a monopoly game, I would say Sasha has used her last "get out of jail" Free card :)
 
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