General Thoughts on Ice Dance 2009-2010

OK now that I have finally watched V&M's OD...I'm speechless. I think that's the first time they lived up to their potential. That was a nearly perfect performance (and I never thought I would say that about V&M... )
Somehow all their other programs didn't touch me or impress me much presentation-wise
* Valse triste was good but they were still rather immature in 2007
* Both programs in 2008 were quite lame and overscored IMO and Tessa's inappropriate expression in the FD really freaked me out
* The OD last season wasn't bad, but not really good either and the FD had potential but wasn't the right vehicle for them IMO
* The FD for this season leaves me completely clueless. I don't get why they choose this music in the first place and I think the result is rather boring and not them, they could do sooo much better... Plus the no-hands lift from last year's FD, which is great in itself, is totally out of place for this program, not matching the theme at all

So, I never particularly liked V&M and thought they were overscored quite often, but now it seems they were just not given the right programs to show how good they really are.
I mean, this flamenco was to die for, apart from Scott's expression being a bit over the top at times I can't find anything to criticize... It was sharp, fast (incredile step sequence!) and perfectly interpreted from the first to the last second.
Chapeau!
Of course, this is just my humble opinion and I would love to see what others think about it!

B/A have my two favourite programs so far. As I said, they should have gone to Linichuk in 2006. Can you imagine how spectacular they would be now? Perhaps D/W should go there after B/A have retired? Because IMO Meryl has the same problems Tanith used to have: not pointing her toes, breaking down in the waist, not holding positions long enough.

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Don't think Davis & White will leave Detroit area any time soon as they have lived there all their lives and attend Univ of Michigan in Ann Arbor and are big fans of the school and its sports teams. Besides they are having a wonderful season so far, getting great scores and a standing ovation at Nebelhorn and even better scores at the GP in Russia. A skater friend of mine who was at Nebelhorn said their FD was spectacular.

Yay!!! An ice dancing topic.

I LOVE the CD's. It's a great opportunity to see who are the better technical skaters and I love the different costumes that people use. My fave CDs are the Paso Doble, Tango Romantica, and Yankee Polka.

It's funny because growing up in the US, it was always about the ladies field for me. I never understood the dance portion of the figure skating competitions. I always thought it was boring LOL.

But all that thinking changed at the 1992 Olympics with Klimova/Ponomorenko. I loved their FD and when they kissed at the end of the performance, I thought it was so sweet. I was so happy for them. Then during 1994 Olympics watching the battles with T/D. G/P, and U/Z I started to really get into it. And then I saw Roca/Sur, Krylova/Ovsiannikov, and Anissina/Peizerat compete---all of a sudden I became an ice dance fan. R/S, K/O, and A/P were my absolute faves for a long time and dance became my favorite discipline since the 90's. I love it.

This year has been fun watching the programs becoming unveiled. Overall, my favorite programs for both the OD and FD are B/A and D/W. I agree with some of the posters above in that I too wanted B/A to leave Shpilband and Zueva after the Olympics. I actually wanted them to go to Linichuk because of the improvements she made with Denkova/Staviski and Gregory/Petukhov. I was shocked when they actually did leave to go to her as I am happy to see how much Tanith has improved in such a short time with her. I want B/A to stay in another year or two just to see how much they can improve artistically and technically.

Delobel/Schoenfelder are a team I was up and down with. Some programs I didn't like of theirs and some I really liked and loved, such as their Bonnie & Clyde. But I always respected that they had different programs and tried to be original. I loved their lifts too. Overall, I really enjoy this team and I want them to come back in time for the Olympics to make the battle for medals more interesting and dramatic.

Domnina/Shablin and Khoklova/Novitski are some of the teams I just cannot get into. I loved a lot of the past Russian dancers and these two teams just do not do it for me. But it will be interesting to see how D/S look if they can come back for the Olympics.

The Kerrs and F/S---love the FDs and not sure about their ODs. But they are still teams I enjoy to watch.

P/B---really enjoy their OD but I cannot get into their FD. Again, I respect they are trying something different but I just can't get into it.

V/M have never really done anything for me. I think the only program I really liked from them were their Tango OD a few years ago and some of their CD performances. I get how many go crazy over them and feel as though they are special, etc but their FDs are usually boring for me to watch and this year's I feel the same programs they have done before. Though technically and style-wise they are great. I love some of their lifts too but other than that.

C/P is the other Canadian dance team where I really like their CD performances but not their ODs or FD's. I prefer W/P over C/P and V/M---though I know W/P are technically weaker but their programs and choreography excite me more.

As for the Americans, I enjoy them all for the most part. My faves other than B/A and D/W are Samuelson/Bates, Summerset/Gilles, the Hubbells, Navarro/Bommentre, and some of the junior and novice teams.

I get why many think S/B are boring but I love them. I enjoy watching them and I think they have a special rapport on the ice that, with time and more experience in competitions, they will explore different programs as they become more confident being on the senior circut. I think for now they are just focusing on learning to compete with the top teams and have consistency in their performances as the #3 US team.

beabstress said:

*Davis/White: In terms of technical merit, and probably technical precision, right now they seem to have everyone beat.

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Not really. D/W really aren't the great technical masters some fans associate them with being. Getting high levels and doing footwork to the music and fitting it in the program is good but I prefer things done to a high quality, the ins and ends and the little details that distinguish which couples have complete sureness of movement vs. those who just do footwork as fast as possible to get it done and over with. Also, Meryl's improved leg lines are coming at the expense of skating further apart, watch their hips in the FD duiring the step seq, you'll see. Has their edge quality improved? Yes. Oh my, yes. Are their posture issues fixed? Absolutely not.

I'd like Charlie White to get power from his waist down, get really down on his knees, not using the arms so carelessly and hunching foward the shoulders like a hockey player. Actually he reminds me of a hockey player I used to know.

But I think whatever happens, D/W will beat V/M in at least one of the competitions this year. The US judge will most like make them pay for their bronze at Worlds last yr, sad.

S/B are so talented to be getting such dreadful programs from their coaches. I mean, Dixie Chicks, for an Olympic year??! and what happened to C/Z, 8th at CoC?? I hope they beat the Hubbells next yr and climb to the #3 team after B/A retire.

Enthusiast said:

S/B are so talented to be getting such dreadful programs from their coaches. I mean, Dixie Chicks, for an Olympic year??! and what happened to C/Z, 8th at CoC?? I hope they beat the Hubbells next yr and climb to the #3 team after B/A retire.

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Oh I agree with you. S/B's OD is not good. I was shocked when I saw it. Last year's OD was sooooo much better than this. S/B are so talented but that OD will get them know where this season if they don't make changes to the choreography soon. I don't know if they can just scrap it as they are in the mix of the GP season and they will have tough competition from N/B for that third Olympic spot.

C/Z---they were off in their twizzles and not in synch from some of their footwork. Also, their OD wasn't a really good interpretation and the FD I found dull. They are new and young and will have time to grow in presentation but they too will need to continue to improve each year if they want to make the podium at Nationals. They are too many good US teams now and the competition is fierce.

ETA: Having said that, I prefer the Hubbells over C/Z and I hope their coaching change will help them to leap onto the podium after B/A retire in the future.

Will S/B really have that much trouble from NavBom? At TEB, they beat them on two of the three programs, and NavBom has never been that strong internationally (highest placement at a Grand Prix Event is fifth. S/B have never been that low). I think NavBom need to worry about the Hubbells overtaking them this year, truth be told.

It's interesting to see people who don't like (don't love might be more accurate) V/M praising the tango (I presume they mean the "Assassination Tango" from their debut season). That's probably my least favourite dance of theirs from their senior career. The OD and FD from last season suffered from under-training, there's no doubt, but I preferred that even.

I think perceived favorable W/P reception over C/P is largely influenced by W/P using highly recognizable, story/drama, music that carries the audience into the programs. The age difference between Andrew and Paul (5 years) also plays in W/P favour.

ImaginaryPogue said:

Fair enough, and I agree with that she doesn't match him in terms of ease of expression. But I really like the concept/music etc... And I love how they look (they truly look like they just stepped out of a sepia toned photograph from the turn of the 20th Century).

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I think I'd enjoy it more if someone else were skating it - but it's too late to pair Massimo up with someone new . As for the look, her dress really, really needs sleeves. Everything else does look period-appropriate except for that.

Yeah, I'll admit that I just don't get them. Their circus FD from last season irritated the hell out of me, and both their OD and FD this season just bug me. That icenetwork article wherein they explain themselves was interesting, but on ice, it just doesn't work for me. Everything about their dances just seems misguided.

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Did you like any of their older stuff? I know not everyone shared my love for their 2008 FD, but the Flamenco they did that year in the OD got a lot of good reviews, and I know many people liked their 4 Seasons FD in 2006-7. The circus FD - I liked the first half better.

BTW, P/B finally have an official website up.

dancefan77 said:

Oh I agree with you. S/B's OD is not good. I was shocked when I saw it. Last year's OD was sooooo much better than this.

I prefer the Hubbells over C/Z and I hope their coaching change will help them to leap onto the podium after B/A retire in the future.

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S/B's OD last year was fantastic, and while I didn't love the FD, I didn't think it was that awful. But this year seems to me as though they're not progressing, and possibly as though they've taken a step backwards. They really need more interesting programs to showcase what they are capable of.

I'm pro-Hubbells too... Watching Junior Worlds last year, I thought the Shibutanis were fantastic, the Hubbells were interesting, and C/Z were a bore; they did nothing I haven't seen (done better) before. Anyway, I hope the coaching switch by the Hubbells will work out for the best.

Enthusiast said:

Not really. D/W really aren't the great technical masters some fans associate them with being.

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You say this like you are the expert here. You're a fan, too, what makes your opinion more valid than any other fan's? Happily the judges don't agree with you, they've won the last 4 out of 5 competitions that they've entered.

Enthusiast said:

But I think whatever happens, D/W will beat V/M in at least one of the competitions this year. The US judge will most like make them pay for their bronze at Worlds last yr, sad.

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:disagree::scowl: There aren't enough emoticons for me to use to respond to this.

I think it's great that we have so many excellent ice dance teams to enjoy. It's my favorite discipline and it's so nice to be able to watch competitions and see one interesting team after the other. We all have our favorites but as a long time ice dance fan, I can say that it's never been better.

~tapdancer said:

You say this like you are the expert here. You're a fan, too, what makes your opinion more valid than any other fan's? Happily the judges don't agree with you, they've won the last 4 out of 5 competitions that they've entered.
.

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I never said I was the expert here; just giving my opinion...maybe I need to write IMO in every post from now on

One of the best topic since years with so many honest opinions.

If I can make a sum of your opinions it seems most of you think the OGM will go to V/M or Belbin/Agosto. You are crossing your fingers for Del/Schoenf. to come back succesfully, and most of you cannot forgive Dom/Shab. to win last year with THAT kind of performance (even if the fact is not their "fault").

It seems like the biggest disappointment this year is Kokh/Nov. until this time, and the most pleasant surprise is Faiella/Scali.

We will be very sorry this year having only 3 places on the Podium.

I agree with you with all these details.

bigdeal said:

One of the best topic since years with so many honest opinions.

If I can make a sum of your opinions it seems most of you think the OGM will go to V/M or Belbin/Agosto. You are crossing your fingers for Del/Schoenf. to come back succesfully, and most of you cannot forgive Dom/Shab. to win last year with THAT kind of performance (even if the fact is not their "fault").

It seems like the biggest disappointment this year is Kokh/Nov. until this time, and the most pleasant surprise is Faiella/Scali.

We will be very sorry this year having only 3 places on the Podium.

I agree with you with all these details.

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Hi bigdeal! I think you did a nice job summing up what the general feelings seem to be--not necessarily among ice dance fans on the whole, but among the ones who have posted to this thread. It's so interesting to me, what a soap opera skating has become! We have our villains, our heroes and heroines, and even our characters who have "come back from the dead" (some might say that Linichuk "resurrected" B/A). As you say, it's too bad there are only three sets of medals. Oh, I will NOT envy the couple who comes in 4th!

beabstress said:

Oh, I will NOT envy the couple who comes in 4th!

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Well, as a D/W fan, I can tell you it's pretty torturous for the fans, too! Of course, the Del/Shoe fans can tell you all about 4th place.

I'm rooting for D/W, of course, for any medal, but I want them to skate for a while longer, too, so if it's not their time, I'll accept that. But I have no problem enjoying them as my #1 dance team no matter where they place.

~tapdancer said:

Of course, the Del/Shoe fans can tell you all about 4th place.

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and most of the time it wasn't even fair

I am sick of all these skaters trying to be "western" or "american" in thier music choice. You are not going to win becuase you skate to Johnny Cash. The canadian crowd loves canadian skaters no matter what they skate to.

sorry i just had to vent.

I love Tanith and Ben's programs. The freedance was a little rough around the edges and it such a pity that the world champs are out with injury so we cannot comapre how they are doing, but I love that Tanith and Ben are trying new lifts, new twizzles, new positons. Great emotion too. I agree with whoever said that Tanith needs to get rid of the wedding dress. The lace makes it look too Princess Di.

beabstress...what a great post.

Here are my thoughts...
Davis/White...I actually like their original dance. At least I am not listening to some Russian folk music or some country western...indian music...that's a new one. It's growing on me.

Belbin/Agosto....I watched their free dance last night...I have to say..I see Olympics all over it. I think that the music is great...their costumes are wonderful and the program is terrific!!

Fiella/Scalli....ummmmm I could just look at Massimo all day and honestly that's what I did...what the heck did they skate too. Can't remember a thing about their program...but Massimo he's so friggin hot!! LOL

Khoklova/Novitski...I really don't enjoy them at all. That being said maybe when I see them in person at Skate America I might change my mind..but I doubt it. They pick terrible music and whoever makes their costumes should have their head examined...seriously!!!

Domnina/Shablin..can't really say that I am missing them this year!!

Zaretsky...what the hell did she do to her hair??? OMG!! Seriously she had such beautiful hair...surely you could have gotten that effect with a scarf, hat, wig or something that wasn't so dramatic!! I can't say how I feel about thier programs yet...but....it's a little overkill with the theme of the original and free being the same!

Kerrs....I feel like they don't get very much respect!

Samelson/Bates...please Emily...ditch the cut off jeans shorts in the original dance!!

Delobel/Schoenfelder....I was really looking forward to seeing them this season...bad pregnancy planning on her part.

Virtue/Moir....not really sure how I feel about them yet...so I will reserve my opinion.

Pechalat/Bourzat..I generally enjoy their skating but I think they need to tone down the costumes....they are a little busy.

Rubleva/Shefer...I am actually enjoying their skating..hopefully she can keep her boobies in her outfit this year!

I don't quite understand the references to Belbin/Agosto being so old compared to Davis/White. B/A are 25 and 27, quite young for ice dancers who've been competing internationally for 10 years. D/W are 22, not exactly babes. The two couples are pretty close in age.

I agree chuckm. At their ages Tanith and Ben could easily do another four years if they wanted to.

S&Z have been welcomed very lovingly back with open arms by the fans and both Xue and Hongbo are older than Tanith and Ben. Watching the pairs freeskate the other day, IIRC it was mentioned that Xue is 31 and Hongbo is 36. Their ages are also mentioned in the S&Z article on this site.

I've been a B&A fan for quite some time and while I never agreed that B&A or rather Tanith were horrible skaters to begin with Natalia Linichuk has made them (her) even better. I'm happy to see the positive reaction to their new FD. I don't find it OTT at all.

The same goes for F&S who many people didn't seem all that crazy about for the past two seasons. Of the teams we've seen thus far I would say that B&A and F&S are arguably the most improved dance teams. B&A both in terms of skating ability and the programs themselves (I loved F&S's "Moonlight Sonata" FD last season).

Buttercup said:

Did you like any of their older stuff? I know not everyone shared my love for their 2008 FD, but the Flamenco they did that year in the OD got a lot of good reviews, and I know many people liked their 4 Seasons FD in 2006-7. The circus FD - I liked the first half better.

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2008 FD: Sorta hated it. Too aggressively weird for my tastes.

2008 OD: Really hot. Both totally sell the sexuality and the arrogance. Interesting how glide-y it was - compare that to A/P or V/M this year which is much more rhythmic and step-y.

2007 FD: Eh, not so much.