11-15-2009, 12:03 PM
As someone pointed out, don't skaters tend to get better as they get better known? I mean, If someone gets better known, that's because they're skating more, right? If that happens, won't they improve? People say that Flatt would be the highest ranked American. True, but guess what - her projection has improved this season, as had her confidence and musicality on the ice. Secondly, she was ranked BEHIND Sebestyn and Suguri on the PCS scores - and both have sturdier reputations than she does. Was she perfect? Of course not. But I suspect she got credit for fully rotating the second triple in the combo, and that was enough to slip her ahead of Sebestyn and Suguri, who didn't try 3-3s.
Originally Posted by janetfan
Was reputation judging abnormal in the days of 6.0? Of course not.
Speedy's strong language aside (and really, putting too much credence in those words strikes me as rather foolish as what else is he gonna say?) I do feel that COP does make things fairer. Something I guess you and I won't ever agree on.
11-15-2009, 12:07 PM
Off the ice
Originally Posted by katha
Yes, I agree, Katha made some very good points, and while I believe the judges sometimes get things wrong, I don't think this is malicious or evidence of a conspiracy.
Originally Posted by i love to skate
What I'm wondering is whether or not there's any way to work on cultural biases and favoritism during the judges' training - it's important that judges be aware that they may be favoring certain styles/skaters, even if not consciously, so that they'll take their own bias into account when evaluating performances. I realize that's a difficult thing to train yourself to do. But most of us as fans are capable of acknowledging the strengths of skaters we don't like, so I don't see why we should expect any less from the judges, who are, after all, trained and experienced experts.
11-15-2009, 12:14 PM
11-15-2009, 12:16 PM
Excellent post, Doris. The PC scores are so flawed The five parts to them, imo, are irrelevant since the Plus GoEs and the Levels awarded in the Tech have pretty much taken care of the components. Just sum them all up and you have what the skater(s) brought to the program.
Originally Posted by dorispulaski
11-15-2009, 12:27 PM
11-15-2009, 12:29 PM
But how is this any different than the Presentation mark under 6.0?
Originally Posted by janetfan
11-15-2009, 12:31 PM
Fair enough, janetfan. I promise to not turn this into a 6.0 vs COP debate. Since we're discussing the ladies, I'll shift the rest of my comments there.
11-15-2009, 12:33 PM
Lets be serious, people-- this is a pretty weak mens field. However, I like Evan as a person even if I'm not a huge fan of his skating-- he puts 100+% into everything he does and I really respect him for that. However, I really don't recognize that freeskate as Scheherazade...he needs to move out of his comfort zone and wear a program-appropriate costume and really get into the mindset of the story he is trying to portray! I am amazed Carrolls let him off this easy with such a lackluster interpretation. Artistry and skating skills is where Oda and Lambiel shine-- he will need to bring more to the Olympic stage.
11-15-2009, 12:38 PM
Was Evan supposed to be Scheherazade (the character)? BF recognized the music and asked me when men started skating to that music...
Originally Posted by cornell08
I thought maybe Evan was trying to be Scheherazade's husband (the King), but with the black costume (which looks remarkably like the one from his SP) I couldn't tell what he was trying to do.
Last edited by Nadia01; 11-15-2009 at 12:48 PM.
11-15-2009, 12:38 PM
11-15-2009, 12:40 PM
Perhaps the black of Evan's costume is supposed to represent the darkness of the king's soul?
11-15-2009, 12:43 PM
I think judges are aware of cultural biases - even in everyday life the majority of us know what biases we have and that they exist. It would be almost impossible to train yourself to ignore these factors though. The majority of judges are able to recognize flaws in skaters and (usually) this is reflected in the marks. As Katha said it is never going to be a sport where favoritism or biases do not exist because it is human nature.
Originally Posted by Buttercup
11-15-2009, 12:55 PM
He really ought to channel Charlie White's Samson. Or at least get the same costume designer to make him a more plausible outfit.
11-15-2009, 01:12 PM
L'art pour l'art
Only watched the top four, spent the entire weekend away from the computer - so I'll make it short: this was even more underwhelming than NHK as a competition. And as far as Evan and his PCS are concerned; I totally agree with Buttercup on all, really all, accounts and find this double standard on this and other boards concerning Evan vs. certain European skaters simply astonishing and utterly, completely annoying.
11-15-2009, 01:16 PM
Perhaps it is has to do with the cultural biases that we have been disucssing? We all have biases.
Originally Posted by Medusa