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Thread: Ladies SP Saturday Nov 14th 7:00 p.m. EST:

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkestMoon View Post


    The funny thing is that they all share the same choreographer, either David Wilson or Lori Nichol. It makes me wonder if they're getting empty programs because their skating is not on par to be able handle the transitions. Transitions into and out of jumps is a tough thing to do. Joannie Rochette admitted to struggling with her Aranjuez when she first got the program because of all the transitions and was only able to land two triples in her practices. She was going to dump the program but decided against it. Lori's best programs in 6.0 and CoP were for Michelle and Joannie. Both ladies have good skating skills. Mao had good programs from Lori too.
    DarkestMoon, I did read about how Joannie Rochette first struggled when her program got loaded with transitions. I also think you are right that the American girls are just not confident enough that they could actually execute all the additional content.

    However, I think in the long term, the American girls would be able to accommodate lots of new transitions, if they invested as much effort into them as they did into practicing their triples.

    The problem is that during all these years, the American girls had the wrong strategy. In their junior days, I remember Caroline, Mirai, and Ashley focusing a lot on their jumps (and spins), but not as much on transitions. Wasted time. Better to leave out the triple-triples but to maximize the transitions.

    The problem is that adding lots of transitions would initially cause the skater to drop in standings because she would struggle. The price is high to pay. (See what happened to Mao. It could happen to others as well.)

    I will however say that Ashley and her coach are on the right track because Ashely has been working with Priscilla to improve her skating in general and hasn't focused only on the jumps.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    That's too bad. I'm Korean-American, and I love watching Fox News Channel.
    Oh, incidentally, I grew up in Japan before I came to US. And I know some Japanese are biased against Koreans just like some Koreans are biased against Japanese.
    I agree that Koreans and Japanese need to let go of their petty differences. It's just all so childish.

    Cara, it seems like you're a reasonable, mature person. That's why I'm surprised that you say you love watching Fox News. If you can recognize the petulant behavior of Korean/Japanese nationalists, why can't you see the hysterical and manipulative nature of Fox News for what it is? It's one thing to be Republican or libertarian; it's another to reduce issues of national and global importance to shouting matches and lowest-common-denominator sound bites. Americans deserve better than that. Don't they?

  3. #363
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    all American talking head "news" stations are in that boat... FoxNews just seems to be the only one that doesn't flow with the rest of the networks in politics... I can't stand any of them

  4. #364
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    Originally posted by sleepyjl
    I agree that Koreans and Japanese need to let go of their petty differences. It's just all so childish.

    Cara, it seems like you're a reasonable, mature person. That's why I'm surprised that you say you love watching Fox News. If you can recognize the petulant behavior of Korean/Japanese nationalists, why can't you see the hysterical and manipulative nature of Fox News for what it is? It's one thing to be Republican or libertarian; it's another to reduce issues of national and global importance to shouting matches and lowest-common-denominator sound bites. Americans deserve better than that. Don't they?
    And MSNBC isn't "hysterical and manipulative?"

    Sigh...This is the kind of issues I would like to avoid, but I must clarify my position. As you know, bad blood between Japan and Korea has to do with the history of Korea being colonized by Japan in the early 20th century until the end of the world war II. If you grow up in Korea, this history is properly taught. However, in Japan, there was a movement in that that part of tyranical history was systematically erased, and a whole generation of young Japanese grew up ingnorant of their country's aggression.

    This is very different from Germany - one of the historical allies (the other being Italian right before and during the WWII) of Japan. As I understand, Germany made a concerted effort to teach its history in order to prevent future aggression.

    Anyway, the lack of awareness on Japanese part, in my understanding, unnecessarily complicate smooth relationship between Korea and Japan. I sense the mutual misunderstanding numerous times between Mao fans (Japanese), and Yuna fans (Koreans).

    Same kind of misunderstanding might be played out between conservative and liberal positions. For your information, I not only check the Fox Nation website but also Huffington Post and Daily Kos. And I decide for myself. Do you even watch Hannity and O'Reilly? For instance, the way Huffington Post describe O'Reilly and/or Glenn Beck is so out of context and distorted one does not even recognize what they actually said in their programs.

    As a psychologist, overwhelming number of my colleagues and friends are committed liberals. And without exception, when they denigrate convervative commentators, they have not watched the sources. Please think for yourself, check the source, and state your opinions.
    Thank you,

  5. #365
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    Please think for yourself, check the source, and state your opinions.
    Thank you,


    that's my biggest problem... people let the talking heads do the thinking for them, that's why they prefer one or the other and never stray outside of that comfort zone. They already agree with the talking heads, so there's no reason to even question what they're saying...

    I take in both sides, normally on the internet, because I can't stand their tone.

  6. #366
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    CARA, though I don't want to get into a liberal/conservative discussion about the various news channels, you put the issues very objectively and politely. Thanks!

    Interestingly, much of my knowledge of the historical interaction between Japan and Korea comes from sports: mostly from TV commentary during the Seoul Olympics. In today's diverse society, an awareness of such matters can come in very handy. For instance, I have an acquaintance who is Korean, and when I see him, we exchange gleeful updates on YuNa's achievements. Though I love and admire both YuNa and Mao, I'm always very careful not to talk about Mao to him, because I don't know whether it might make him uncomfortable. He's not specifically a skating fan. It's nice that here on the site I can praise both of them! Because I could never choose just one of these amazing skaters.

    It's interesting to hear about the way Japan teaches its own history in schools. I hope that as they get farther away from that era, they'll become more able to examine it unflinchingly, as the Germans already do. One more benefit of Korea's entrance onto the skating scene is that it provides another opportunity for people from Japan and people from Korea to encounter one another. I still firmly believe that sports had a lot to do with Americans starting to see the Soviets in a better light. People like Olga Korbut, Rodnina/Zaitsev, and of course Gordeyeva/Grinkov were amazingly effective goodwill ambassadors for their country.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    CARA, though I don't want to get into a liberal/conservative discussion about the various news channels, you put the issues very objectively and politely. Thanks!

    Interestingly, much of my knowledge of the historical interaction between Japan and Korea comes from sports: mostly from TV commentary during the Seoul Olympics. In today's diverse society, an awareness of such matters can come in very handy. For instance, I have an acquaintance who is Korean, and when I see him, we exchange gleeful updates on YuNa's achievements. Though I love and admire both YuNa and Mao, I'm always very careful not to talk about Mao to him, because I don't know whether it might make him uncomfortable. He's not specifically a skating fan. It's nice that here on the site I can praise both of them! Because I could never choose just one of these amazing skaters.

    It's interesting to hear about the way Japan teaches its own history in schools. I hope that as they get farther away from that era, they'll become more able to examine it unflinchingly, as the Germans already do. One more benefit of Korea's entrance onto the skating scene is that it provides another opportunity for people from Japan and people from Korea to encounter one another. I still firmly believe that sports had a lot to do with Americans starting to see the Soviets in a better light. People like Olga Korbut, Rodnina/Zaitsev, and of course Gordeyeva/Grinkov were amazingly effective goodwill ambassadors for their country.
    Thanks, I agree that the South Korea's entry into the skating scene is positive. As a Korean, I am proud of Yuna's accomplishment, but I also truly enjoy quality of skating Mao bring to the sport I love. Our sport is richer that way.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post


    that's my biggest problem... people let the talking heads do the thinking for them, that's why they prefer one or the other and never stray outside of that comfort zone. They already agree with the talking heads, so there's no reason to even question what they're saying...

    I take in both sides, normally on the internet, because I can't stand their tone.
    Agreed!

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    If you grow up in Korea, this history is properly taught. However, in Japan, there was a movement in that that part of tyranical history was systematically erased, and a whole generation of young Japanese grew up ingnorant of their country's aggression
    I'm Japanese, and the teachers at school and my parents taught me properly what kinds of terrible things Japanese armies have done against other nations in the war, and me and my family and all my good friends believe Japan has reponsibility for what the army has done in the past, even if some politicians deny it.
    Last edited by Dominique; 11-16-2009 at 04:01 AM.

  10. #370
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    Oh, dear. It looks like I've open a Pandora's box. Dominique, I'm not certain how old you are, but I'm guessing that you are younger than me. At the time I left Japan, certain historical facts were not taught, and Japan was a recipient of international condemnation because of it. It seems like corrective actions were taken in Japan, and I am happy to hear what you stated.

    Incidentally, historical revisionist movement is not just prerogative of Japan. For the last 20-30 years, the role of Judeo-Christian emphasis, especially "dead-white-old-men" are de-emphasized from the US history. With the political-correct zealot as it is, there has been whole lot of parents who prefer to home-school their children in this country to instill what they believe are important.
    Last edited by CARA; 11-16-2009 at 03:36 AM.

  11. #371
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    much of all this talk should be in the Politics Folder.

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    Incidentally, historical revisionist movement is not just prerogative of Japan. For the last 20-30 years, the role of Judeo-Christian emphasis, especially "dead-white-old-men" are de-emphasized from the US history. With the political-correct zealot as it is, there has been whole lot of parents who prefer to home-school their children in this country to instill what they believe are important.
    So what do you think is not being instilled in American schoolchildren these days? Judeo-Christian values? The dead-white-men canon? I beg to differ. Judeo-Christian values are being taught as they should be in an academic setting: as the basis of much of Western culture. And a survey of world history (including non-European history) and non-dominant American cultures hardly constitute a refutation of the Western canon; e.g., Shakespeare is still, by a huge margin, the most taught writer in English classes. Finally, ethics are being taught based on its philosophical and logical moorings, emphasizing the universality of certain principles and mores across all religions and creeds.

    Political correctness is annoying, I grant you, but please don't use the term to generalize and denigrate the many positive developments in US/European discourse in the last half-century. The expansion of Western knowledge to encompass non-Western cultures and modes of thought, the leveling of the playing field to allow everyone to participate in the conversation--these things are good developments that should be recognized and respected.

    A lot of people use the terms "political correctness", "revisionist history" and "Judeo-Christian values" as codewords for their distaste for gays and lesbians, Roe v. Wade, feminism, and affirmative action. I find this particularly prevalent among my fellow Korean-Americans, for some reason. I don't know if it's the higher penetration of evangelical Christianity into the Korean community, or the larger percentage of 1st or 2nd generation immigrants among Korean-Americans, but we tend to be far more conservative than other Asian immigrant groups like the Chinese or the Japanese.

    And this bothers me. It bothers me that my sister, who was able to succeed in academics and in her profession because previous generations of civil rights and feminist pioneers paved the way, is more than happy to partake in the fruits of their sacrifice but refuses to extend those fruits to gays and lesbians. It bothers me that my brother-in-law, whose career has clearly benefited from the diversification efforts spearheaded by previous generations of African-Americans, feels that it's OK to then turn around and claim that diversity efforts are not necessary (because he doesn't need them anymore).

    And it bothers me that these reactionary attitudes are normalized by hatemongers like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly so that people think it's OK to discriminate against and dehumanize other human beings. I am not watching these talking heads out of context. Television IS their context, and the vitriol they spew serves only to promote dissension, misunderstanding and distrust in our society, by allowing people to conveniently forget that we are all in this together, that what hurts my neighbor also hurts me. This is NOT normal and it's NOT OK, and can't be swept under the rug by pointing out that liberal people have spokespeople on TV, too. Beck, O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh are NOT the conservative counterpoints to Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann; David Brooks and George Will are. No, Beck, O'Reilly and Limbaugh are like the Michael Vicks of the political world, goading their viewers to bite and tear at the rest of the country, consequences be damned.

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