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Thread: Men's SP 9:00 p.m Nov. 13th EST

  1. #136
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    I was chatting live on justintv and the russians actually had the most intelligent and sarcastic comments of them all (there were americans, austrians, spanish, french, english, koreans and japanese to name a few who all had to fit into that tiny commentary box). One of them said he was more of a crow than a firebird. I found this so hilarious and translated the same opinion into english. It quickly caught on. So Evan the Crow.

    I was looking at this with the eyes of a new born- haven't seen any of their programs and Evan was the only one I "knew" (there were more guys I knew by name, but knew nothing about their skating tho...). All in all I think he deserved to place first, as for the others - loved the funky suspenders on Lutai and Macypura was cute beyond belief (especially after the program - the hair, the not seeing the camera- kinda "blond" of him, but whatever).

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    I think he was really trying for a "headless CHARRED chicken".


    You just made my morning.

  3. #138
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    [QUOTE=Buttercup;428189]I did not stay awake, and looks like it was the right decision. I take it Evan Lysacek was the best in a rather underwhelming field - not surprising considering the USFSA pretty much set it up for him to win. Did he really deserve nearly seven points over Amodio in PCS, though?

    No Evan did not deserve those PCS. Somewhat inflated. Maybe on skating skills but the rest? Not over Amodio for sure. And not better choreo than Verner despite Verner's mishaps.
    Last edited by yelyoh; 11-14-2009 at 06:35 AM.

  4. #139
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    The skate is over and imo, I would not object to either Evan or Florent winning. I can't believe those judges are concerned about the venue.

    Certain scores within the range of 1 point are ties for me. We are looking at extremely different styles here, so it's basically a pick your choice.

    For the LP, forget the style differences, and check to see who is the more consistent.

  5. #140
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Your continuous Evan/USA bashing is noted.
    I'll withold further comment
    Not unusual for some fans to have problems with certain skaters. Many fans said openly that they preferred anyone to win but Kwan. Oh the schodenfroid(sp) of it all! .

    to be honest, I must admit I have deep schodnfreud(sp) for Plushenko. I would not object to see Florent beat him.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    The skate is over and imo, I would not object to either Evan or Florent winning. I can't believe those judges are concerned about the venue.

    Certain scores within the range of 1 point are ties for me. We are looking at extremely different styles here, so it's basically a pick your choice.

    For the LP, forget the style differences, and check to see who is the more consistent.
    Hmmm, such an objective view feels strangely out of place after reading comments from the others

    And how odd to hear the ones's complaining about Carroll's comments now are claiming "favoritism" from the judges in favor of Evan.

    Let's try for some consistency fans - either Carroll is correct and there is shady judging - or he is WRONG - and Evan earned his score tonight.
    But that would mean you can't have it both ways and that appears to be unacceptable. What a conundrum
    Last edited by janetfan; 11-14-2009 at 07:08 AM.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post
    Ouch, first time to turn the computer and poor Tomas got sick and fell all over the place

    Get well soon old chap
    Sorry for Tomas K.
    Hope he is feeling better in time for his LP but that might not be possible

  8. #143
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    On second viewing I liked Lysacek's SP even better! It suits him perfectly. And his costume is great, too. The design of the arms is unusual but suited for the theme and it being black saves it from overkill IMO. Now his LP costume OTOH...

    I also think that he interprets his music well and projects to the audience. And no, not only the American audience. He got big applause in China, too. His skating skills are good, as are the linking movements from element to element IMO. Or at least his transitions don't seem worse to me than those of most of the other top men. So for me his PCS seem totally justified.

  9. #144
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    And how odd to hear the ones's complaining about Carroll's comments now are claiming "favoritism" from the judges in favor of Evan.

    Let's try for some consistency fans - either Carroll is correct and there is shady judging - or he is WRONG - and Evan earned his score tonight.
    Well, I suppose that was in reference to my post here and elsewhere on the forum. What a strange interpretation of my comments, and posts written by other people. I did not suggest that Evan Lysacek was overmarked as part of some vast conspiracy to make him appear a superior skater to, say, Daisuke Takahashi. And nobody suggested that he isn't the rightful leader after the SP; in fact, I specifically pointed out that I did not watch the SP, and asked others for their opinion.

    An event in the US, with the reigning American world champion against a mostly subpar field... who doesn't expect a bit of a bonus? And with Florent Amodio being an (inconsistent) up and coming skater, I can't imagine anyone expected sky high PCS for him. But considering the content in Lysacek's performance - quadless, with a cheated 3A - that score seems very generous, especially as Evan doesn't have the best technique and isn't known for amazing choreography and musical interpretation. Apparently it's the highest PCS score of the season; I seriously doubt there was no better performance all season on that mark. Evan Lysacek is not the Yu-Na Kim of men's skating.

    Established top skaters are often helped on PCS. It's nothing new, though in this case it does appear somewhat excessive. But there is a huge difference between the judges getting overexcited about a skater, which is not really unusual, compared with actually conspiring to keep the scores of certain skaters down, and I should think that would be obvious to anyone.

    Janetfan, I realize you have been a skating fan for many years, that you support American skaters, and that by your own admission, you have something of a cold war mentality about it. But if you seriously think the American skaters are the only ones earning their scores fair and square while everyone else is cheating, which is basically what Carroll said, then I don't think there's any point in having a discussion.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 11-14-2009 at 07:32 AM.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Well, I suppose that was in reference to my post here and elsewhere on the forum. What a strange interpretation of my comments, and posts written by other people. I did not suggest that Evan Lysacek was overmarked as part of some vast conspiracy to make him appear a superior skater to, say, Daisuke Takahashi. And nobody suggested that he isn't the rightful leader after the SP; in fact, I specifically pointed out that I did not watch the SP, and asked others for their opinion.

    An event in the US, with the reigning American world champion gainst a mostly subpar field... who doesn't expect a bit of a bonus? And with Florent Amodio being an (inconsistent) up and coming skater, I can't imagine anyone expected sky high PCS for him. But considering the content in Lysacek's performance - quadless, with a cheated 3A - that score seems very generous, especially as Evan doesn't have the best technique and isn't known for amazing choreography and musical interpretation. Apparently it's the highest PCS score of the season; I seriously doubt there was no better performance all season on that mark. Evan Lysacek is not the Yu-Na Kim of men's skating.

    Established top skaters are often helped on PCS. It's nothing new, though in this case it does appear somewhat excessive. But there is a huge difference between the judges getting overexcited about a skater, which is not really unusual, compared with actually conspiring to keep the scores of certain skaters down, and I should think that would be obvious to anyone.

    Janetfan, I realize you have been a skating fan for many years, that you support American skaters, and that by your own admission, you have something of a cold war mentality about it. But if you seriously think the American skaters are the only ones earning their scores fair and square while everyone else is cheating, which is basically what Carroll said, then I don't think there's any point in having a discussion.
    Sorry if you feel that way. My post was not directed to you specifically but to many others who suggested Evan was given marks he did not deserve or earn.

    I haven't seen the SP's yet either and my comments were based on what I read on this thread from many posters, not just you.

    But my point may sound inconvenient, or even painful to some - but I happen to believe it. There is still way too much favoritism and judging by reputation in skating.

    I was happy to see Plushy return and land his incredible jumps. I didn't think any other aspect of his skating at COR was above average, and thought his spins were below average. And that might be generous.

    But his pcs were very high. I agree with Carroll and his history in skating seems to offer evidence of crooked judging. To deny it just does not feel realistic at all.

    Joe said several months ago that skating has become so "internationalized" that he doesn't root for American skaters - but his favorite skaters. I feel more and more like that too.FYI, I much prefer Tomas to Evan.

    Since the majority of comments here suggested that Evan was gifted and shown favoritism I felt it more than appropriate to point out the rather obvious double edged sword such views express. It is a logical conclusion even if it goes against your opinions about Evan and Carroll and ISU judging.

    Sorry if my remarks offended you. I enjoy your posts and will continue reading them.

  11. #146
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Janetfan, thanks for taking the time to clarify and explain your thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    But my point may sound inconvenient, or even painful to some - but I happen to believe it. There is still way too much favoritism and judging by reputation in skating.

    I was happy to see Plushy return and land his incredible jumps. I didn't think any other aspect of his skating at COR was above average, and thought his spins were below average. And that might be generous.
    Indeed, esp. the part I bolded. But I think reputation-based judging, while a problem, is not on par with the sort of misconduct Carroll has been alleging. I don't think anyone suggested that the marks in the SP were an example of backroom dealing and the like, just the sort of thing that Plushenko enjoyed at Rostelecom and Takahashi at NHK (this will not endear me to seniorita or Hsuhs... ).

    I understand that Carroll's experiences in skating may have made him more sensitive to dodgy scoring and politiks, but I sometimes think it has made him too sensitive, and that he overreacts in some cases. Sometimes his skaters really are dinged because there are problems with their skating, not because there's a conspiracy afoot. If he were more selective about levelling such accusations, maybe they'd have a greater impact when he does make them.

    Joe said several months ago that skating has become so "internationalized" that he doesn't root for American skaters - but his favorite skaters. I feel more and more like that too. FYI, I much prefer Tomas to Evan.
    I think most people here prefers Tomas, but he is soooooo frustrating. If he ever gets it together, his score will be amazing. There is nothing that guy can't do.

  12. #147
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    I thought Lysacek was way better than Amodio yesterday. True, Amodio was deep into the soulful artsiness of it all. But Lysacek gave a great performance. I thought he deserved his high scores in choreography, interpretation and especially performance/execution.

    On the Universal sports coverage Evan was asked wheter he was "surprised" that his triple Axel was downgraded. He said that he was, a little, but that he knew he had left a "grey area" that would be open to judges' interpretation. It's "on the skater" to clean up those grey areas so that you don't put your fate in the hands of the judges.

    I thought that was a good (if politically correct and perhaps a tad disingenuous) answer.
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-14-2009 at 11:07 AM.

  13. #148
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    Congrats to Evan, Florent and Brandon. Very nice skating from the top three.
    I thought that Shawn Sawyer skated well too, I liked his SP very much.

    Tomas what can I say other than I hope he moves up in the LP.

  14. #149
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    I was happy to see Plushy return and land his incredible jumps. I didn't think any other aspect of his skating at COR was above average, and thought his spins were below average. And that might be generous.
    oh dear god with plush spins, do you have to mention it in every thread in Gs??
    You confuse eye pleasing with getting your levels at spins. Not good spins but he did what is required to have 4 level and 3, i dont remember where he had what, he didnt get any positive GOE for them, did he?Did anyone claim there were beautiful?Does CoR requires to be beautiful? When Plush ever had more than average spins to surprise you now? But average skater in everything else?Right..

    What did they say, was Tomas ill??He looked like.
    I didnt get the firebird choreo, but I maybe confusing choreo with style here and I didnt enjoy Evan at all. But he has been so consistent so kudos to him, I admire his sportsmanship!
    And sorry B but I dont think Plush and Takahashi were the only ones overmarked in their sp this season
    Last edited by seniorita; 11-14-2009 at 09:33 AM.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    oh dear god with plush spins, do you have to mention it in every thread in Gs??

    And sorry B but I dont think Plush and Takahashi were the only ones overmarked in their sp this season
    I do not mention Plushy spins in every thread!!!!!

    When I mention how "slow" his skating looks, naturally I post that at the mighty "Caroline Zhang" thread

    I agree with you about Plush and Takahashi and could add Joubert, and Miki to such a list. And others.......

    Probably Evan too - I just haven't seen his SP yet.

    But that was my point - that it seems ridiculous for some to selectively rant about Evan being overmarked when "reputation" is still the staus quo for ISU judging.

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