Ladies LP Sun Nov. 15th 2:00 PM-4:00 PM | Page 13 | Golden Skate

Ladies LP Sun Nov. 15th 2:00 PM-4:00 PM

lakeshore

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Thank you. I mean, even (dare I say?) anti-Yuna fans have to admit that Yuna's skating ability is above most skaters.

I'm not anti-Yuna. I just don't think it's fair to think sh'es above all other skaters.

If Miki, Carolina, Mao deliver, they should beat Kim. But unfortunately, Kim's overscored SP may not make this possible.

Frankly, I hope the Olympics will produce some extraordinary controversies and the CoP will be gone for good!
 
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HCOSurfer

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
I also think Rachael is starting to gain some of that "reputation" from the judges for sure. Good for her. She's done well at worlds last year. Her lutz isn't the most obvious outside takeoff edge, but the judges now are accepting it. Other skaters with similar takeoffs would probably get penalized though...
Yeah I guess that could be a part of it as well, it's what you get for being one of the few that can actually do a clean free skate :thumbsup:
 

herro

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
I'm not anti-Yuna. I just don't think it's fair to think sh'es above all other skaters.

If Miki, Carolina, Mao deliver, they should beat Kim. But unfortunately, Kim's overscored SP may not make this possible.

Sorry, I wasn't implying that you were. I agree with you though. If skaters with comparable skills as Yuna skate better, they should definitely win. I just thought that Yuna was clearly in a different realm in this competition based on her other competitors.
 

Princesspts

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
As weird as this is to say (and i've seen others say it as well), I'm glad that she had a bad performance here. I think it will take the pressure of her going into the GPF and the Olympics. Like a pressing of a button to release pressure (reference to Lost, for anyone who cares, lol). Maybe it will help people realize that the lady is just human and gets nervous and makes mistakes like everyone else. (Maybe it will calm down the media, hopefully) OTOH, she did win with THAT free skate. So maybe it will urge people into saying, "Look! She's unbeatable even when she doesn't skate perfect!" Which will add more pressure on her to always win. Who knows?

And on the topic of the results, she has superior skating skills to Rachel, plus Rachel did fall in the short and Yu-Na had a big lead.
 

cornell08

Final Flight
Joined
May 10, 2009
I'm not anti-Yuna. I just don't think it's fair to think sh'es above all other skaters.

If Miki, Carolina, Mao deliver, they should beat Kim. But unfortunately, Kim's overscored SP may not make this possible.

Frankly, I hope the Olympics will produce some extraordinary controversies and the CoP will be gone for good!

How is her SP overscored? That suggests that if others skaters skated with the same level of difficulty and execution/skating skills they would not get as high of a score. But thats completely untrue! If any of the top ladies delivered as clean, difficult, and polished skate (same great height in jumps, skating skills...), they would get a similarly high score. +2 and +3's across the board add up. And with a SP like Yuna had, it is well deserved.
 

lakeshore

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Sorry, I wasn't implying that you were. I agree with you though. If skaters with comparable skills as Yuna skate better, they should definitely win. I just thought that Yuna was clearly in a different realm in this competition based on her other competitors.

I don't mind her winning this competition. Her SP was way better than all other skaters. Flat was not exactly that good. Even in her 'clean' lp, she's very sloooow, her spins were atrocious, and steps were just blahh.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Kyla, I will reserve judgment about whether Yuna is overscored or not in the SP: however, I do think the commentators owe it to us, the viewers, to explain why Kim's SP scores so well.

This is crucial because if it isn't apparent, people will start thinking that it has to do with favoritism. And for most of the audience, I assume it won't be apparent at all.

I agree. In fact, I would go farther. IMHO it is the death knell for a spectator sport when the focus is always on the officials and their rulings instead of on the perfromances of the athletes.

Under the present scoring system the audience cannot tell whether they just saw a good performance or a bad one until someone tells them.

To the viewers it looked kike Yu-na Kim tanked. No, say the judges. Rachael did a combo-schombo spin intead of a combi-schmombi spin, so Kim wins.
 
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silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Ok if someone wins after bombing the short and doing the long perfectly it is great job
but if someone who exelled in the short but blew the long it is a travesty
whats with the double standerd; it is COP not 6.0; the bombing the short is just and bad as bombing the long when it comes to points

Yeah but that's just what happened at Nationals. Alissa Czisny had a big lead in the short, but her "big lead" was significantly smaller than Yu Na's and was only superior to the others' in terms of artistry. Then in the free skate she landed 3 clean triples and 2 doubles axels and won the title. For Alissa, that free skate wasn't "bombing" because she frequently struggles with the jumps and people have come to expect it from her. I would argue the situation today was a less severe version of nationals because Yu Na had a bigger and more deserved lead in the short than Alissa did and in the long only one Rachael definitely put up a better performance than her whereas at Nationals there were about 6 girls that put up free skates at the level of Alissa's and she still won. And I still think Alissa maybe even deserved to win. Yu Na's LP was really not that bad, it's just that she's normally so good
 

Tharau

Spectator
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Athletes put themselves out there, and to comment on their physique in terms of conditioning/fitness is completely reasonable if not inevitable.
If a skater can perform, as Flatt obviously can, why the hell should it matter if she doesn't fit into someone's personal vision of what a skater "should" look like?

This is supposed to be judged on skills and performance. It's not a bodybuilding parade.
 

lakeshore

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
As weird as this is to say (and i've seen others say it as well), I'm glad that she had a bad performance here. I think it will take the pressure of her going into the GPF and the Olympics. Like a pressing of a button to release pressure (reference to Lost, for anyone who cares, lol). Maybe it will help people realize that the lady is just human and gets nervous and makes mistakes like everyone else. .

Yu Na clearly has problem with 3flip. I don't think it's just mental. It'll be interesting to see how her 3flip will look like in the GPF.

Without 3flip, she just becomes another Mao. 3lutz, 3S and 3T, the GREATESt ladies skater? I don't think so. :bow::bow:
 

herro

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
How is her SP overscored? That suggests that if others skaters skated with the same level of difficulty and execution/skating skills they would not get as high of a score. But thats completely untrue! If any of the top ladies delivered as clean, difficult, and polished skate (same great height in jumps, skating skills...), they would get a similarly high score. +2 and +3's across the board add up. And with a SP like Yuna had, it is well deserved.

Agree with you completely. I don't really understand why people are saying she is overscored, when she deserves the points she's getting. I think part of the problem is that people who may not know every little detail about skating may look at the scores and be confused. But for someone who really understands every single element and the scoring, it's obvious why she gets the scores she does. It frustrates me a little when people imply that Yuna does not deserve her scores. She works so hard for them and she and her coaching team are smart by trying to maximize the points they get under CoP.
 

poorScorer

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
As weird as this is to say (and i've seen others say it as well), I'm glad that she had a bad performance here. I think it will take the pressure of her going into the GPF and the Olympics. Like a pressing of a button to release pressure (reference to Lost, for anyone who cares, lol).

Well said. I agree with you there.
But I doubt it will put more pressure on other top ladies.
 

cornell08

Final Flight
Joined
May 10, 2009
If a skater can perform, as Flatt obviously can, why the hell should it matter if she doesn't fit into someone's personal vision of what a skater "should" look like?

This is supposed to be judged on skills and performance. It's not a bodybuilding parade.

It is based on skills. And based on skating skills, Kim eclipses Flatt, sorry.
 

Princesspts

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Yu Na clearly has problem with 3flip. I don't think it's just mental. It'll be interesting to see how her 3flip will look like in the GPF.

Without 3flip, she just becomes another Mao. 3lutz, 3S and 3T, the GREATESt ladies skater? I don't think so. :bow::bow:

Really? I don't think so. She did it well in both of her SPs and looking at the fact that she had it combo every year before this one (and the reason for the switch had nothing to do with the fact that she had a tremendous problem with the jump either) I don't really agree. I think it is a mental problem stemming from the fact that she missed it at TEB. I'm more worried that she messed up on her 3-3 at the beginning. I'd like to know what happened there.
 

enlight78

Medalist
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
it easy to see why yuna deserve her score if you pay attention to lines; posture ;positions ,speed ;flow ; hieght ;ease; steadyness; intracacy; If you only look for things that look pretty and what jumps they did you end up overlooking a lot of the points;
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I've watched almost everything on Universal Sports/NBC but justinTV is preferable because of lack of commentators. Every now and then Scott or Sandra will say something useful but its value is pretty much wiped out by their (mostly his, actually) extraneous babble, repetitiveness, and silence about mistakes that should actually be named, or how things are scored.

As grateful as I am for the coverage, I want Uncle Dick and Peggy back. Or hire the Eurosport guys!!!
 

newvie

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
I heard that the entrance to the flip has been changed after the TEB. She's probably not used to it yet. And since she was too concerned about the flip, she might have messed up all together.

I think it's better for her like this because she's now free from having to break the record every time she skates. She would be less criticized for having scores skyrocketing, which prohibits other skaters from dreaming about the gold medal at Olympics.

SA was quite interesting after all. Lots of thanks to Yuna, Rachael and Julia for unexpected surprises ;)
 
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