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Thread: CD Friday Nov. 20th 6:30 PM Eastern Time

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    CD Friday Nov. 20th 6:30 PM Eastern Time

    The dance is the Tango Romantica

    The order of skate and confirmation of the schedule is not yet posted.

    Andrea CHONG / Guillame GFELLER CAN
    I have not seen them compete this year so far. They were 4th in the CD at Canadian Nationals last year, behind V&M, C&P, and W&P.

    Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN
    V&M skated previously at TEB, and so have not done the Tango Romantica this season. Here's how they did in the Golden Waltz:
    First place in CD: 38.41 19.44 18.97 7.65 7.40 7.65 7.70 0.00

    Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE CAN
    W&P skated previously at CoC, so and so have not done the Tango Romantica this season. Here's how they did in the Golden Waltz:
    Fifth Place in CD: 30.40 15.58 14.82 5.95 5.70 6.05 6.10 0.00

    Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT FRA
    P&B skated previously at TEB, and so have not done the Tango Romantica this season. Here's how they did in the Golden Waltz:
    Third in CD: 35.53 17.96 17.57 7.10 6.75 7.25 7.10 0.00

    Carolina HERMANN / Daniel HERMANN GER
    The Hermanns skated the Tangor Romantica at CoR. Here's how they did:
    Ninth Place in CD: 25.54 13.56 11.98 5.05 4.55 4.75 4.80 0.00 #3
    They also skated the TR at Nebelhorn, scoring 26.13, which was 10th in the CD. They skated recently at NRW Trophy, receiving 29.18 in the GW in the CD (3rd)

    Federica FAIELLA / Massimo SCALI ITA
    F&S skated previously at CoC and so have not done the Tango Romantica this season. Here's how they did in the Golden Waltz:
    Third Place in CD: 35.37 17.96 17.41 7.00 6.70 7.05 7.20 0.00

    Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV RUS
    B&S skated the Tango Romantica at NHK. Here's how they did:
    Third Place in CD: 31.72 16.54 15.18 6.25 5.75 6.15 6.20 0.00

    Madison HUBBELL / Keiffer HUBBELL USA
    The Hubbells skated previously at TEB, and so have not done the Tango Romantica this season. Here's how they did in the Golden Waltz:
    Seventh Place in CD 27.17 14.04 13.13 5.35 5.05 5.40 5.25 0.00

    Emily SAMUELSON / Evan BATES USA
    S&B skated previously at TEB, and so have not done the Tango Romantica this season. Here's how they did in the Golden Waltz:
    Fourth Place in CD: 31.11 15.90 15.21 6.25 5.85 6.05 6.20 0.00

    Here are the Major Errors and points in the Tango Romantica from ISU communication 1567 (August 2009) p. 10:

    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1442

    TANGO ROMANTICA

    MAJOR ERRORS GOE (other errors are minor)

    Sections 1 & 4 (steps 1 –16)
    Steps 1– 3
    �� Dance not started on count four * Double-threes (“Helicopter”) not skated
    correctly and in unison, axis not maintained between couple
    �� the Step 3 not skated on count two *
    Steps 5– 6
    �� Lady´s LBO-sw3 and opCho and the Man´s “Tw” not on clean, distinct edges
    Step 9
    �� Not started as a CR followed by a visible change of edge for both partners
    �� Tw1 for Lady not turned fully, or scraped, skidded or jumped
    Steps 14 Lady and 14a,b Man
    �� Man’s ClMo and Lady’s RFI3 not on clean correct edges or scraped, skidded or jumped.
    Base Value per sequence 2.9 3.2

    Sections 2 & 5 (steps 17 – 32)
    Step 22
    �� Either partner not skating Rk on correct edges on a well rounded lobe, or turn
    scraped, skidded or jumped
    Steps 26– 27
    �� Not continuous and deep curves for both partners in closed position during the
    cross rolls before the “step over”
    Steps 28– 31
    �� The “step over” not held on two feet for 2 beats *
    �� Lobe to lobe transition not clean, with the three turn (turned on count 3) not skated around the same axis staying in closed position. *
    Base Value per Sequence 1.6 2.3

    Sections 3 & 6 (steps 33 – 49)
    Step 35a
    �� Outside edges not clean, - scraped, skidded or jumped on Lady´s Rk turned on count 4 *
    Steps 35b– 37b
    �� Man´s SwclCho not skated on clean, correct edges, - or scraped, skidded or jumped
    �� clCho for Lady not turned on clean, correct edges on count 3* as Man changes edge
    Steps 44– 45
    �� Partners are not skating strong, deep, well rounded lobes controlling their own circles during the smooth change of hold
    �� Lady´s clCho not skated on clean and correct edges
    �� Lady´s Tw1 and Man´s three turn not skated tightly and quickly on count 4 * or
    scraped, skidded or jumped.
    Base Value per sequence: 2.4 3.1

    KEY POINTS OF COMPONENTS

    Skating Skills Ice coverage without visible pushing; cleanness and sureness of steps; strongly curved well rounded lobes; lobe to lobe transitions well controlled; controlled body weight changes; light knee action; clean, tight, crisp footwork.

    Performance Perfect vertical and horizontal unison; good carriage and style; controlled body action; nicely matched free legs; balance in performance between partners.

    Interpretation Expression of the typical changes between the soft and strong character of the rhythm, relationship between partners reflecting the lyrical mood of this Tango. Well-defined and strong edges should be skated with a lot of character using good knee action, tight, clean footwork with matching free leg movements. For good presentation and interpretation the body style and movements should reflect Tango rhythm.

    Timing Very precise and crisp timing, exact beat value for each step, sometimes syncopated to bring out the Tango character.

    * NOTE: As Accuracy and Timing are inseparable in Compulsory Dances, timing mistakes shall be reflected in
    both, GOE and Components marks
    I'll copy in the tech info from NHK, for those that might have missed it, or in case you'd like a reminder what step 35 b was :

    A quick review of the Tango Romantica:

    Ice-dance.com has the correct descriptions and layout of the dance:

    http://www.ice-dance.com/reference/compulsories/
    [Step Chart One]
    http://www.ice-dance.com/reference/c...rom-chart1.gif
    [Step Chart Two]
    http://www.ice-dance.com/reference/c...rom-chart2.gif
    [Pattern Lady]
    http://www.ice-dance.com/reference/c...ngoromlady.gif
    [Pattern Man]
    http://www.ice-dance.com/reference/c...ngorom-man.gif

    Music - Tango 4/4
    Temp - 28 measures of 4 beats per minute; 112 beats per minute
    Pattern - Optional
    Duration - The time required to skate 2 sequences is 1:43 min


    Quote (from ice-dance.com):
    "This is a romantic sinuous dance which expresses the soft, lyrical interpretive characteristics of the Tango. It must be skated with deep edges. Foot and body movements must be deliberate and convey a sense of dignity approaching arrogance. Very erect carriage, precise timing, and continuous flow must be maintained. The difficulty of the steps should not be revealed in awkward or stressed upper body positions. Finally, coordination of free leg movements is essential to avoid a tangled, confused effect."

    The dance was invented by Ludmilla Pakhomova, Alexander Gorshkov and Elena Tchaikovskaya.

    First Performance - Moscow, 1974

    To see good performances of this dance:

    Linichuk & Karponosov, Olympics 1980
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3JtWL61fco

    Klimova & Ponomarenko, Worlds 1992
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVOmpEaZEw
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-17-2009 at 04:44 AM.

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    Faiella Scali out of Skate Canada due to healthy problem

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    That's dreadful!

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    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Oh, no. They've had no luck at all since Europeans, have they? Whatever the matter is, I wish them both the best of health for the rest of the season.

    In terms of how this affects everyone else, I'm guessing this means the Kerrs are now definite for the GPF, and P/B even more likely than before?

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    I'm sorry too..I adore them and their free dance is just wonderful IMO..and it would have be great to see two italian team at the final..I hope they can recover well!! can't wait to see them at europeans!!

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    The CD is thematic but not necessarily meant to be authentic except to follow the outline of the originators Pakhomova/Gorchov. No?

    Also I believe the music rhythms are most important for skaters to follow the timing and beat of the music and not to be comparable to Tangos on the floor.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    It's supposed to be a romantic tango rather than an oppositional tango like the Argentine, I would guess from the description.

    Timing is key in all CD's, since timing flaws cause GOE dings in the segment in which they occur, plus negatively affect your timing PCS component. Which BTW, the description emphasizes.

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    dorispulaski, did Linichuk & Karponosov and Klimova & Ponomarenko, skated best Tango, from what video we could find?

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    Here's Klimova & Ponomarenko's from 1992 Worlds:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVOmpEaZEw

    Torvill & Dean (1980):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-atHYyPPIi8

    Anissina & Peizerat (2001 Worlds):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyXCZ4y-N7o

    Linichuk & Karponosov (1980 Olympics):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3JtWL61fco

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    Quote Originally Posted by mishieru07 View Post
    Here's Klimova & Ponomarenko's from 1992 Worlds:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVOmpEaZEw

    Torvill & Dean (1980):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-atHYyPPIi8

    Anissina & Peizerat (2001 Worlds):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyXCZ4y-N7o

    Linichuk & Karponosov (1980 Olympics):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3JtWL61fco
    Thank for the links, but wich CD is the best?

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    Quote Originally Posted by npa View Post
    Thank for the links, but wich CD is the best?
    I'm no technique expert ... wait for Doris!

    IMO, there's no one "best" dance because artistry is subjective. Me, I like K/P. The commentator did say that Linichuk and Karponsonov should have a good Tango Romantica because their coaches helped to create the dance though. Something along those lines. (:

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Of the ones I found on youtube, I thought K&P and L&K skated it best. That's why I posted them as a link, for reference.

    I like L&K's sharpness, distinctness of movement & carriage (almost syncopated). If you turn the sound off, it is clear their dance is a tango. Their leg line is not always perfect, and they could have skated it closer together, IMO. And today, post-Grishuk, this would have been skated faster. That was less important in 1980.

    K&P have better closeness and leg line,but the tango has not great tango feel, and if you turn the sound off, you would be puzzled to know that it is a tango. They do not have the sharpness of L&K. So in some ways, better, IMO, some ways worse.

    Both teams have good timing & ability to actually do the steps.

    I really liked T&D's second iteration, but their first iteration seemed rather tight and had a little problem in one of the steps. I also didn't like that straight-arm arm pump they were doing. Their closeness was good, likewise the sharpness, but this is a young T&D, and they are not quite soup yet.

    I really didn't like A&P's as well as the other 3-the distance between them varied a bit, and the 2nd pattern looked like it didn't overlay the 1st as closely the other 3 teams did. It may be the vid or my computer, but I didn't feel the timing was quite as good as the other 3 teams either (A&P did not live in the world of 3 CD's every competition, plus invent-your-own CD that L&K, T&D, and K&P did. CD's are a declining art.) A&P won their event-and deserved to win it.

    A better dance technician than I am would probably have more to say!

    However, I would prefer that the a couple dancing Tango Romantica give you the same feel, approximately, as Pakhomova & Gorshkov doing a tango, since they originated this dance. Here's one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Baa8-oqJLOI
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-18-2009 at 03:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    some ways, better, IMO, some ways worse.


    However, I would prefer that the a couple dancing Tango Romantica give you the same feel, approximately, as Pakhomova & Gorshkov doing a tango, since they originated this dance. Here's one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Baa8-oqJLOI
    Thanks so much for posting this link to this tango as I have felt that too many teams have been taking the wrong attitude with this dance, treating it more like the Argentine. I don't know why the judges haven't really corrected that expression, unless they have also forgotten what this dance is supposed to look like and just focus on the steps.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    So as Doris has pointed out the tango autentica and the tango romantico are two separate dances. Must confess, I didn't realise that. The latter should be mostly waltz position - and never look angry

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    what heppened to F/S?

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