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Thread: FD 12:15 Eastern Time, Sunday, Nov. 22

  1. #76
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    I think V/M's FD is well-choreographed, suits them perfectly and the music is to die for. I wouldn't say they are "gimmicky" ("Umbrellas" OTOH...but that's a different topic ), but especially when looking at Tessa IMO they are "one-note" in presenting the program. I like everything else about it, but her endless beatific smiling starts to bother me more and more. Doesn't she hear the nuances in the music? And if Zueva told her to have one fixed expression throughout, why? To undermine the effect of the program? It doesn't make sense to me. I wonder if the fact that the music stays more or less on one level throughout may hurt them later on. Because if they're not one hundred percent on or make mistakes, the whole thing falls apart. The choreography could perhaps build more "light and shade" into it, so the program has a clearer structure?
    Last edited by katha; 11-23-2009 at 02:57 PM.

  2. #77
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    they need to speed it up a bit slow--
    personnally perfer Davis and white- better than Virture and Moir
    but Virtue and Moir definitely better than Belbin and Agosto.

    right now the OGM is between Davis and White and Virture and Moir.

    Great job virtue and moir better than last years worlds and most definitely better than FRance.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by katha View Post
    but especially when looking at Tessa IMO they are "one-note" in presenting the program. I like everything else about it, but her endless beatific smiling starts to bother me more and more. Doesn't she hear the nuances in the music? And if Zueva told her to have one fixed expression throughout, why?
    I totally agree. This is what I mean by "gimmicky" not the lifts, but their expression, especially hers, coming off as stilted and not entirely genuine...Esp the holding of hands and looking up at the sky, esp...that move just did not do it for me.

    And enthusiast...I swear if I ran into you in an alleyway, just you and me, I swear I would run for my dear life. You're just way too sinister. How could you hold on to my every word dating back to, like, 2007, misinterpret them however way you like, and hold me responsible? Besides, everybody here admits I am as entitled to my opinions as anyone else . I'm not trying to malign V/M in any way, I used to be a huge fan back when they did VT, but their frontrunner status I feel like has gotten to their head a bit and I haven't appreciated the way they belittled B/A (for instance, expressing their consternation at B/A m being ranked ahead of themselves after 2009 Worlds CD) since they left shpilband. They got plenty of their fans, and me saying that I do not enjoy their current FD 100% is not going to affect them in any way. so please chill out and leave me alone.
    Last edited by cassieandcheetah; 11-23-2009 at 09:42 PM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieandcheetah View Post
    but their frontrunner status I feel like has gotten to their head and I haven't appreciated the way they belittled B/A (for instance, expressing their consternation at B/A m being ranked ahead of themselves after 2009 Worlds CD) since they left shpilband.
    Ok, you are going to have to explain this statement. How exactly have they "belittled" B/A??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiast View Post
    Gimmicky and manufactured? Have you watched D/W"s FD?
    and yes, I have watched them, many a time. As many have commented, I do lament their selection of music, I wish that they have selected the Phantasia version instead (lloyd-webber and S.Chang), but even the less-than-optimal music selection does not negate the fact that they skate oh-so-well. Like how I used to wonder why Bourzat and Pechelat could never win any competition, until I saw their skating up close and saw how sloppier they looked than other top teams and skated farther part from each other than most couples. We may wonder forever about judging, but I think judges tend to be correct about who can actually skate well, and who can't. Ice dance IMO, shouldn't be just about performing alone.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Ok, you are going to have to explain this statement. How exactly have they "belittled" B/A??
    "No, Virtue and Moir were not rusty this time, although there was a minor slip of the edge during the dance yesterday. "To be behind Americans who were on the comeback trail, it does seem a little odd," Moir said.

    "We're here to win," he said. "We're not happy that we're not winning."

    link to article: http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-ska...wsid=7613.html

  7. #82
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    I don't think it was belittling at all. It was weird for them to be behind B/A because they beat them at the previous World Championships and B/A were recovering from an injury. He didn't say they didn't deserve their placing....just that they had come there to win. Even if it was meant to be a dig or whatever, why do people have an idea that skaters have to be nice all the time and say positive things about everybody?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieandcheetah View Post

    And enthusiast...I swear if I ran into you in an alleyway, just you and me, I swear I would run for my dear life. You're just way too sinister. How could you hold on to my every word dating back to, like, 2007, misinterpret them however way you like, and hold me responsible? Besides, everybody here admits I am as entitled to my opinions as anyone else . I'm not trying to malign V/M in any way, I used to be a huge fan back when they did VT, but their frontrunner status I feel like has gotten to their head a bit and I haven't appreciated the way they belittled B/A (for instance, expressing their consternation at B/A m being ranked ahead of themselves after 2009 Worlds CD) since they left shpilband. They got plenty of their fans, and me saying that I do not enjoy their current FD 100% is not going to affect them in any way. so please chill out and leave me alone.
    Oh really?? Your posts post-2007 were not complementary of them at all,which is OK, we have our opinions...I don't mind you calling them overscored, even if I may not agree.....and then came her injury and not even the season started for them then things got really nasty....calling them/her "lazy", "unprofessional" "deceitful" people...I mean, what did they say this time to elicit such sinister response?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieandcheetah View Post
    why is everybody raving over this FD? to me, this is not even close to being their best program. Their best FD was either valse triste or umbrella. This current program feels manufactured, too gimmicky, and the mahler is played at twice the normal tempo to fit all the notes into 4 minutes, to anybody that's classically trained, it sounds almost like a disco version of the original....
    I can't claim to understand why all others are raving about it, and I'll assume you're genuinely curious.

    1. I haven't seen it live but all the comments from those who have seen it live tend to invoke words like "rapturous" and "cast a spell."

    2. It's interesting that you feel it's gimmicky (yet you don't feel that way about Pechelat/Bourzat's program, so I'm wondering what gimmicky means to you). To me, gimmicky means inorganic, and to suggest that this program isn't of a piece with Valse Triste or Umbrellas of Cherbourg strikes me as definitively wrong. I'd buy that their Pink Floyd FD is gimmicky (I don't think it is, but I can definitely see why some think so).

    3. For me, it does what I said in my first comment. It casts a spell. I'm drawn in completely into the world they create - the world of fresh, young love; of spring idyll; of poetry. If you've seen the film Bright Star (beautiful by the way), it reminds me of the butterfly scene - just light, delicate, gorgeous. From the moment the music starts I'm completely in their thrall. It could go on for hours and I wouldn't look away (BTW, I went and bought the Mahler piece they used because of how awesome they use it). It's sport and art and poetry combined and it is just breathtaking.

    4. It's imperfections even make me swoon. People talk of Virtue's expression, and while it's not as good as Moir's, I can't help but love it for the sheer joy of skating it conveys. That's why I'm raving about it.
    Last edited by ImaginaryPogue; 11-23-2009 at 11:45 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieandcheetah View Post
    Like how I used to wonder why Bourzat and Pechelat could never win any competition, until I saw their skating up close and saw how sloppier they looked than other top teams and skated farther part from each other than most couples. We may wonder forever about judging, but I think judges tend to be correct about who can actually skate well, and who can't. Ice dance IMO, shouldn't be just about performing alone.
    I am sorry, but ice dance is NOT ONLY BALLROOM, it is also BALLET. When you look at a ballet and especially contemporary ballet, dancers are dancing very often separately.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieandcheetah View Post
    "No, Virtue and Moir were not rusty this time, although there was a minor slip of the edge during the dance yesterday. "To be behind Americans who were on the comeback trail, it does seem a little odd," Moir said.

    "We're here to win," he said. "We're not happy that we're not winning."

    link to article: http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-ska...wsid=7613.html
    not a minor slip, not one but TWO and they stopped skating without deduction

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by anne-marie View Post
    not a minor slip, not one but TWO and they stopped skating without deduction
    Erm IIRC this quote was about the CD placings at Worlds 2009. It wasn't about their OD (which I did feel was overmarked but what do I know). And as far as I know, they didn't stop entirely.

    Oh c'mon people RELAX. Everybody is entitled to love or hate a programme; so long as it doesn't go into personal attacks of a skater or poster's character, it's fine.

    I still believe the best is live reports; seeing compeititions live versus on a computer/ tv screen has a totally different vibe. Just about everyone (AFAIK) who was there said it was absolutely spellbinding. V/M and Zoueva clearly know what they're doing.

    ITA about ballet and modern dance but ice dancing has its roots in ballroom dancing (hence the CDs). Admittedly, Tessa's ballet training really shows in their programmes and imo, their FD resembles a pas de deux (in a good way). Their carriage and grace is unbelivable.

    I was a litle perturbed by their expression at TEB but I'm fine with it now. It's music and they have every right to interpret it the way they want. If they see it as a sort of first dance after a wedding or between lovers, their expression makes sense.

    I'm with ImaginaryPogue . They are one of the few skaters I could watch all day and still be amazed.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by mishieru07 View Post
    Erm IIRC this quote was about the CD placings at Worlds 2009. It wasn't about their OD (which I did feel was overmarked but what do I know). And as far as I know, they didn't stop entirely.
    .
    watch the video again, at the second slip, because they needed to recover the choreography it took several steps where they were sliding but did not skate their flamenco.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    I don't think it was belittling at all. It was weird for them to be behind B/A because they beat them at the previous World Championships and B/A were recovering from an injury. He didn't say they didn't deserve their placing....just that they had come there to win. Even if it was meant to be a dig or whatever, why do people have an idea that skaters have to be nice all the time and say positive things about everybody?
    This cuts both ways, and in the future, some non-Canadian skater is sure to trash talk one of the Canadian competitors and this will get reported in the public realm. We trust that you will remember your words here, and not go about the forum indignantly boo-hooing about the wicked skater for picking on a Canadian.

  15. #90
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    V/M skated the program better than at TEB, but why did they make that change to their ending pose? I liked the one at TEB better.

    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    I don't think it was belittling at all. It was weird for them to be behind B/A because they beat them at the previous World Championships and B/A were recovering from an injury. He didn't say they didn't deserve their placing....just that they had come there to win. Even if it was meant to be a dig or whatever, why do people have an idea that skaters have to be nice all the time and say positive things about everybody?
    They don't have to. But they should, especially if they remember how Joubert was slammed in 2008 for ''making a dig'' on Buttle.
    Last edited by mycelticblessing; 11-25-2009 at 09:22 AM.

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