Ladies SP 13:15 pm Eastern Time Friday, November 20

[i love to skate]

seems like there is a general disdain here- I don't see anything wrong with expressing even a little bit of frustration. I mean, it's not like she's throwing anything at the judges or dissing them (openly) or other displays of bad sportsmanship

My concern isn't that it is bad sportsmanship but that she has a very negative attitude. This attitude isn't doing anything to help correct her problems. If she doesn't make improvements then of course it is going to be frustrating to continue to see the same marks come up.

She really needs to take a year off, try and fix her technique, and see if she really still wants to skate, IMO. From her expression and comments it seems that she doesn't enjoy it at all. Maybe she needs to take a page out of Joannie's book and develop a life for herself outside of skating.

[Enthusiast]

ZHang said 'oh well, that's life, see ya"

[DarkestMoon]

???

If expression is not extroverted, how can the third party know she is expressing something? If you feel she is expressive even if she does not "extrovert" it, isn't that because you're willing/ready to feel it? Aren't dancers and actors supposed to extrovert what they want to express making use of their bodies, faces and speeches?

There are ballerinas who have similar subtle expressions like Joannie. Expression need not to be over the top and obvious. Veronika Part is a good example. Expression can also come from the eyes.

[Layfan]

hey lay off--zhang tried a triple triple gets downgraded but a white girl like rachel tries and falls and gets credited--biased and r" and d' is keep going on in skating
why shouldn't she get snarky-ice network made sure everyone knew about where she finished last season at skate canada--not a word about the white girls where they finished at last season gp events or sasha-or the fact they overlook their mistakes
yes i don't like it but i say zhang should sue the usfsa, isu and whoever else she can think of because SHE IS NOT GOING TO GET A FAIR SHAKE> SHE WiLL BE robbed or d against in skating- no matter what she does-clean or otherwise.
i think meissner ought to sue the usfsa to get into nationals the way they are intentionally favoring certain skaters over others.
keeps this up-lose more fans based o
n cheating, unfair judging and d and r.

i told at being of season that usfsa put zhang in teb and skate canada in a Deliberate attempt to keep her down and out of olympics and nationals and future skating--see scores and how the keep other us girls up their and overlook mistakes for them and not her. yes they and you have proven me right.
i didn't want to be-but you have.

Um, fairly4? Have you ever heard of Michelle Kwan or Kristi Yamaguchi?

[DarkestMoon]

Um, fairly4? Have you ever heard of Michelle Kwan or Kristi Yamaguchi?

Fairly4, or Query5, has been on other forms talking about racism towards Asian skaters. Yes, I recognize this poster's comment patterns. Frankly, he/she/it is rather hypocritical, given how this person responds.

[Bennett]

I haven't watched yet, but a bit disappointed that akiko's chance of going to the olympics may not be as great as i would have wished.

[SerpentineSteps]

I haven't watched yet, but a bit disappointed that akiko's chance of going to the olympics may not be as great as i would have wished.

no! never give up! she still has the FS!!!

[Spun Silver]

It's a shame about Caroline's seemingly poor attitude. I can understand that it must be incredibly difficult to go from that golden junior who won everything in sight and got standing ovations, to the senior lady who can't seem to fulfill her early potential. And then she has the timing problem that RD has mentioned - she doesn't have time to address her technical problems now even if she wanted to. She seems to be frustrated and blaming her low scores on the judges. Maybe she's been reading too much fairly4. I really hope not. She doesn't have forever, and her talent is precious.

[Blades of Passion]

Sasha (and several American women known for their spirals) just scrape on by. Sasha was trained to be a multidirectional skater to compensate for her weak skating skills but she barely traces on the ice. Skaters are expect to be able to skating in many directions but the tracing is important.

Sasha does not scrape on by in her Spirals.

Moreover, pressing really hard into the ice is not a sure sign of skating skills.

Lilting edges require skill as well. Being able to flow over the ice and caress the ice without making deep tracings displays a certain ability (which isn't to say Sasha always displayed that quality).

Sasha executed her Charlotte on her flat. She did her vertical split skid spiral on her flat.

#1 - You are supposed to execute the Charlotte on a flat if you want to go in a straight line.

#2 - You know what a skid is, right? You are always going to be on your flat (at least at some point) when you skid onto another edge.

Sasha displayed great control when doing these moves. Her blade remained steady when doing them.

Again, I would love to see how secure Rochette is when attempting the same positions. The more difficult the position, the harder it is to maintain balance.

You are definitely overstating the ability Rochette has. Her edges aren't THAT great when doing the Spiral and she doesn't execute the change-of-edge completely smooth either.

Also - regarding Spirals in general - great edge control doesn't matter much if the position looks horrible. You can demonstrate deep, secure edges (in the same pattern as a Spiral) by simply stroking along the ice and/or holding an edge. A Spiral creates an image on the ice and if the skater's body doesn't look good then it is a fruitless endeavor.

Spirals are in a pretty horrible state these days. Almost every skater does the same forward change-of-edge spiral and jerks their body into a catch-blade position, usually looking like they are straining themselves and not enjoying it at all.

Joannie is no different in that regard. She displays better control and ice coverage than some skaters, but she still transfers awkwardly between positions when doing the catch-blade and looks like she is in pain and trying way too hard.

[Layfan]

Also - regarding Spirals in general - great edge control doesn't matter much if the position looks horrible. You can demonstrate deep, secure edges (in the same pattern as a Spiral) by simply stroking along the ice and/or holding an edge. A Spiral creates an image on the ice and if the skater's body doesn't look good then it is a fruitless endeavor.

Spirals are in a pretty horrible state these days. Almost every skater does the same forward change-of-edge spiral and jerks their body into a catch-blade position, usually looking like they are straining themselves and not enjoying it at all.

Oh, thank you Blades of Passion. For a bit I thought I was going crazy or something to suggest that I loved Cohen's spirals. I appreciate all the points others have made about edge control - but I have to agree with BOP ... it just ruins the program when a skater gets into an ugly position. One thing I miss about Michelle Kwan ... she never forced herself into an ugly spiral just to get points.

[i love to skate]

Oh can we please stop discussing Sasha. She hasn't even competed this year and she has her own thread in the main forum.

Overall, the short program was a fairly well skated event. I'm looking forward to the long! Go Jo!

[MKFSfan]

Yeah, I loved Worlds 2005 when Sasha attempted a COE and change of position from arabesque to catch foot in the SP, struggled mightily and almost crashed into the wall, having to stop and restart. That to me shows how weak her edge control was. If you watch Sasha live, there is no questioning how amazing her extensions and tensions on her spirals are. She hits beautiful positions from the ankle up. However, as you watch her skate, it's pretty obvious she lacks speed and ice coverage-Michelle was great in this, she'd carve an "S" shape as she did her COE spiral. Sasha's was more on a "/" line, shallow edging and less ice coverage. I've never seen Joannie live, so I can't speak for her, but her edging and speed looks superior to me than Sasha's.

[Layfan]

Oh can we please stop discussing Sasha. She hasn't even competed this year and she has her own thread in the main forum.

Overall, the short program was a fairly well skated event. I'm looking forward to the long! Go Jo!

Heh. You're right, totally off topic, sorry ....

It WAS a good event. Great to see so many clean programs even if the scoring was perplexing at times ... (I think that's how we wandered off into spirals and Sasha in the first place) I won't be able to breathe tomorrow during Alissa's program.

[Marie_S]

I would grade Joannie's performance that she just gave as:

3Lz + 2T ----------------> +1 GOE ---> 8.3 points
3F ------------------------> +1 GOE ---> 6.5 points
Flying Sit (level 4) -----> +1 GOE ---> 3.5 points
2Axel ---------------------> +1 GOE ---> 4.5 points
Spiral Sequence (level 4) --> +1 GOE ---> 4.4 points
Layback (level 3) ------------> -1 GOE -----> 2.0 points
Footwork Sequence (level 3) ---> +0 GOE ---> 3.3 points
Combination Spin (level 4) -----> +0 GOE -----> 3.5 points

Technical Total - 36

Program Components:

Skating Skills - 8.0
Transitions - 7.5
Performance - 7.75
Choreography - 7.5
Interpretation - 7.0

Total (factored by .8 for the SP) - 30.2

Overall - 66.2

Definitely not 70.

CAN'T AGREE MORE.
Joannie did well, but 70 without even a 3-3 or a 3A? And with THAT spin and spiral? Since when 70 in the SP become so easy?
Sorry about mentioning Mao when she didn't compete here, but her personal best in SP in the international competition (except for the WTT since it's a joke) was 69.5 in the 2006 NHK trophy with her Nocturne. Just compare those two programs.

[silverlake22]

long time listener, and i just have a few things to say.
- joannie deserved to have the highest score, while alissa did well she skates pretty slowly and does not land her jumps with as much bounce and spring as joannie.
-all the asian girls got robbed. mirai was so much better than lepisto, and although akiko and caroline made mistakes, judging by the huge scores joannie and alissa got, they all should have been significantly higher. i thought mirai's performance was on par with alissa, maybe a couple points lower for pcs, but not 8.
-i think the judges are basing their scores off looks. let's give all the pretty skinny white girls huge scores....i see no other rational for lepisto's score

though i'm frustrated, i'm excited for tomorrow. alissa and mirai could easily have meltdowns, but considering neither of them is in first and has to skate last, i am confident that they can do well and make the podium. joannie should win unless she bombs... i also wouldn't mind if akiko or caroline made the podium . i feel really bad for caroline though...

another thing i'm worried about is alissa. if she wins/medals here i'm wondering if it might mean she has peaked too soon in the season. in 2005 she won silver at SA and gold at SC then went to the GPF and finished last, then to nationals and finished 7th and lost her chance to go to the olympics. if she continues to skate the way she is now, i feel like she will probably make the olympic team (her and rachael - unless sasha decides to petition) but if she does her whole pressure meltdown like she has done at both worlds, i'm afraid she might succomb to her nerves do poorly at the olympics. i'm interested to see how she does tomorrow...usually she delivers one great program and one shaky one, maybe she'll surprise us and go clean tomorrow too!