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Thread: Ladies SP 13:15 pm Eastern Time Friday, November 20

  1. #331
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    I haven't had an impression that Joannie is a consistent skater over years.

  2. #332
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    “If she does the two spins (better), she’s a 65,” Berlin said. “And without the minus on the triple flip, she’s a 66. So, if she can really bring that program to the height of its performance, it would be a 70-pointer.”
    Quote from Julie Berlin about Alissa's skate today and her potential for improvement ... I dunno ... what do you guys think? Wishful thinking?

  3. #333
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    Alright so with this whole inflated scoring thing, you can't compare scores of today with those of 3 and 4 years ago (in the case of mao and sasha). The scores have in general been getting higher each year under the new system. Take Alissa, in 2005 she delivered a short program at SC much like her one today, possibly even better, and received a 58. 54 - 6 points lower than her SP score today with no real rhyme or reason. There is, however, something to be said about maturity, though technically Mao's nocturne SP was superior to Joannie's, at 16 she was still a bit junior-ish in her presentation. Joannie has been skating much longer than Mao had at 16 (she's 7 years older...) and her skating has benefitted from this longevity.

    Also, I think Joannie is competition for Yu Na, and definitely for Mao and Miki. The pressure doesn't seem to get to Miki much, and Mao normally puts up good long programs though she tends to make silly mistakes in the short, but pressure DOES seem to affect Yu Na. She's good enough to medal with mistakes, but at 2007 worlds Kimmie didn't do great after following Mao's amazing performance in her home country, Carolina absolutely bombed after Yu Na was amazing at worlds last year, and Alissa can't even seem to take the pressure of being at worlds considering she always performs way better at all her other competitions of the season. The Olympics will be intense, and we can't underestimate the girls who can deal with the pressure, Joannie, Rachael, Ashley.

    Any predictions for tomorrow's FS results?

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Quote from Julie Berlin about Alissa's skate today and her potential for improvement ... I dunno ... what do you guys think? Wishful thinking?
    If Alissa wasn't such a nervous girl I'd say it's possible, however I think she's too cautious because of it to go out and attack the program like she'd need to to get that 70. She could maybe pull it off in a US competition where the judges are in her favor, but internationally, i'd say it's a stretch. Plus without a 3-3 there's no reason anyone should be scoring a 70 unless they are competing in their home country with judges who support them

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    The Olympics will be intense, and we can't underestimate the girls who can deal with the pressure, Joannie, Rachael, Ashley.
    Wagner is untested under pressure but by nature she's hot & cold as well...

  6. #336
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    If Alissa wasn't such a nervous girl I'd say it's possible, however I think she's too cautious because of it to go out and attack the program like she'd need to to get that 70. She could maybe pull it off in a US competition where the judges are in her favor, but internationally, i'd say it's a stretch. Plus without a 3-3 there's no reason anyone should be scoring a 70 unless they are competing in their home country with judges who support them
    I guess ... but her 63 today makes me think the 65 from 2009 nationals wasn't completely ridiculous. I keep waiting for someone to question her score today but so far no one has ... so here's hoping she'll keep up the momentum!!

  7. #337
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Is Alissa consistent in practices?

  8. #338
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan View Post
    Obviously there are many parts to a spiral, and I think according to many viewers, edging, ice coverage and speed take a back seat to extension and position.
    Speed is necessary as well but Sasha doesn't fail in that area. Her Spirals cover the ice fine, IMO.

    Caroline Zhang has amazing extension too but I wouldn't put her Spirals on the same level as Sasha's at all. I don't feel like you are giving Sasha enough credit. Nobody in the World can match her Spirals and that says something. It shouldn't be ignored just because other skaters have deeper edges (something which isn't necessary for a great Spiral). And, again, I'd love to see how superior other skaters' edging would be if they were attempting (or had the ability to attempt!!!) the positions that Sasha is capable of!

    BTW, Sasha does have quite a smooth change-of-edge in her Spiral as well. Not as great as Michelle's but nobody can touch Michelle in terms of that.

  9. #339
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Is Alissa consistent in practices?
    yeah good question. I've often wondered that myself. Everyone says she only tumbles because of nerves but is that really it? Her jumps are pretty puny even when she lands them. The question is ... can she improve them as Julie Berlin seems to be implying?

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    yeah good question. I've often wondered that myself. Everyone says she only tumbles because of nerves but is that really it? Her jumps are pretty puny even when she lands them. The question is ... can she improve them as Julie Berlin seems to be implying?
    I think she CAN, the question is if she WILL in a high pressure event such as worlds, the olympics, and even nationals this year. We need to see if she has really overcome her nervous demons. She tends to do well during the grand prix season, we'll see if it lasts

  11. #341
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    BTW, it seems that Mirai was called for the edge on the Flip and got -2.20.

  12. #342
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    Is Joannie a total package in figure skating or something like that?

    If she is, her scores is well deserved and she is entitled to several benefits.

  13. #343
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Now that I have seen all the performances on Universal Sports, I have to say that I don't find any of the scoring out of line. Alissa was great, but Joannie was much better. Suzuki was a little bit labored, while Lepisto had excellent speed and basic skills dispite a messed-up combo. Caroline Zhang wasn't nearly as bad as I expected from the Internet comments. Mirai deserved her third place finish. I didn't see Lacoste or Phaneuf.

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Alright so with this whole inflated scoring thing, you can't compare scores of today with those of 3 and 4 years ago (in the case of mao and sasha). The scores have in general been getting higher each year under the new system. Take Alissa, in 2005 she delivered a short program at SC much like her one today, possibly even better, and received a 58. 54 - 6 points lower than her SP score today with no real rhyme or reason. There is, however, something to be said about maturity, though technically Mao's nocturne SP was superior to Joannie's, at 16 she was still a bit junior-ish in her presentation. Joannie has been skating much longer than Mao had at 16 (she's 7 years older...) and her skating has benefitted from this longevity.

    Also, I think Joannie is competition for Yu Na, and definitely for Mao and Miki. The pressure doesn't seem to get to Miki much, and Mao normally puts up good long programs though she tends to make silly mistakes in the short, but pressure DOES seem to affect Yu Na. She's good enough to medal with mistakes, but at 2007 worlds Kimmie didn't do great after following Mao's amazing performance in her home country, Carolina absolutely bombed after Yu Na was amazing at worlds last year, and Alissa can't even seem to take the pressure of being at worlds considering she always performs way better at all her other competitions of the season. The Olympics will be intense, and we can't underestimate the girls who can deal with the pressure, Joannie, Rachael, Ashley.

    Any predictions for tomorrow's FS results?
    Agree. CoP is supposed to be objective, but it is not. Joanni 70 doesn't necessarily mean superiority to Mao's Nocturn. Certainly Joannie got extra points because this is Skate Canada. You can't compare scores event to event.

    I don't think Joannie deals with pressure well. She just skates well in Canada just like Mao skates well in Japan. It is fortunate for her that Canada hosts Oly.

    We will see what happens in Japan two weeks later.

  15. #345
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    Ok, a quick question. Was Joannie's performance as good as:

    Yuna Kim's

    Tango de roxanne [2007 world - 71.95]
    (TES: 41.49, PCS: 30.46)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjdMwMvd35g

    Danse Macabre [2009 4cc-72.24] and
    (TES: 42.20, PCS: 30.04)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOHh77x1feI

    (And these were world record breaking performances)


    Mao Asada's

    Nocturne 2006 SA - 68.86?
    (TES:39.40, PCS: 29.44)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmyUwtmch9w

    I love Mao's clare de lune, but I couldn't find her high scored program on youtube. They deleted them all I think... :( But Mao certainly did not receive 70 with her claire de lune at any major competitions, except in team trophy, which she received 75 with 3A combo.

    From what I saw, Joannie's PCS is higher than all of these, right? (31+) She also didn't do any 3-3, and I wouldn't say her step or spiral sequence or even spins are better than Yuna or Mao....?

    Joannie's SP is up here.

    http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Sports/Fig.../ID=1337428457
    Last edited by figurejennah; 11-21-2009 at 01:27 AM.

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