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Thread: Ladies SP 13:15 pm Eastern Time Friday, November 20

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Yes I do.


    Which program is more difficult though? One with downgrades and edge calls or one which has no downgrades or edge calls? I'll take the latter.
    Wow. If you think so, I have nothing to say. I don't hear any commentators praising Joannie's performance to be something that will be remembered in the history of skating. I brought the world record breaking performances of Kim (And please, I said this twice already, but Danse Macabre is not from seasons ago, it was only last season), and Mao's best and most memorable piece, and yet still you think Joannie's presentation surpasses, so what can we say.


    Mao did struggle with some edge calls and yes, Kim had some "!" issues last season. However, Kim until last season never had any edge or downgrade problems, and she usually always received GOE (Not to mention she cleared all the flip issues this season). Moreover, Mao's steps and spins are waaaaaayyyy better than Joannie's.
    Last edited by figurejennah; 11-21-2009 at 09:56 PM.

  2. #422
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    Each skater has different style and strength and weakness. Each fan has different opinion and her or his favourite skater so Joannie fans think that she is better than Yuna or Mao, it is very reasonable.

    But while Yuna was the only skater who got more than 70 points in SP (Mao did but it was the last season and just once so I do not mention now), I thought that the skaters would need 3-3 in order to get get the gold medal at the Olympic.
    But then the judges at the competition showed that it would not necessary to do 3-3 jump to get 70 points and it is what I am a little bit worried about because it might make the other skaters not to try 3-3 anymore in order to be safe even though they are able to do it.

    I might be a little bit selfish but I just don't want to see the safe "ok" programmes at the Olympic like Shizuka Arakawa's one in Torino.
    Her entire programme was beautiful but all elements were just so-so to me.

  3. #423
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macemace1980 View Post
    Each skater has different style and strength and weakness. Each fan has different opinion and her or his favourite skater so Joannie fans think that she is better than Yuna or Mao, it is very reasonable.

    But while Yuna was the only skater who got more than 70 points in SP (Mao did but it was the last season and just once so I do not mention now), I thought that the skaters would need 3-3 in order to get get the gold medal at the Olympic.
    But then the judges at the competition showed that it would not necessary to do 3-3 jump to get 70 points and it is what I am a little bit worried about because it might make the other skaters not to try 3-3 anymore in order to be safe even though they are able to do it.

    I might be a little bit selfish but I just don't want to see the safe "ok" programmes at the Olympic like Shizuka Arakawa's one in Torino.
    Her entire programme was beautiful but all elements were just so-so to me.
    I agree with everything you said, but I don't think you'll need to worry about 3-3's being intentionally neglected. For one thing, it's YuNa's bread-and-butter; I believe she's always going to try for it. And for that reason, I think her closest rivals who are able to do it fairly consistently will be motivated to try it, as well. Besides that, I think we should take the scoring at these smaller competitions like these Grand Prix's with a grain of salt...there haven't been any close competitions among the women so I am guessing judges felt generous with the points.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by macemace1980 View Post
    I thought that the skaters would need 3-3 in order to get get the gold medal at the Olympic.
    But then the judges at the competition showed that it would not necessary to do 3-3 jump to get 70 points and it is what I am a little bit worried about because it might make the other skaters not to try 3-3 anymore in order to be safe even though they are able to do it.
    The only skater that consistently rotates her 3-3 is Yu-na though. So all the skaters who try and do it are getting downgraded to a 3-2 anyways. I'd rather see a beautiful 3-2 than a cheated 3-3.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by zartian View Post

    :chorus::chorus::chorus:

    Do you "really" see her more feminine than Mao or Yuna? If so, I am now witnessing a real cultural (or personal?) difference! On the internet of some Asian country (I wouldn't tell which), I found she was called as "brother" instead of "sister" in a cute way (no way in a derogatory term). In most of the Oriental eyes, she belongs to less feminine style (maybe because of her muscular body?) than, let say, Alissa, Mirai, Sasha, Caroline, Ashley, Mao, Yuna, Yukari. Miki seems more likely to belong to the category of Joannie, Carolina style. I am talking about general consensus: there are always exceptions.

    All this does not mean that I don't like Joannie. To be honest, her style and artistry was just so-so to me until last season, although I liked her power. But I really started to like her after seeing her Tango this season! This seems to bring up more femininity from her and I think It's her best program (at least to me). I wish her all the best this season!
    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    To say that she isn't feminine because of her muscular body is absolutely ridiculous. I know it was not supposed to come out this way, but the comment about her being seen more as a "brother" is completely derogatory and offensive, IMO.

    In Canada she is definietly seen as feminine, strong, powerful and beautiful: I am glad we don't have such narrow views on what is "feminine"

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/figure...s-sultry-style
    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I agree with everything, except where you say "it was not supposed to come out as derogatory". IMO, calling a lady "brother" conveys disdain in and of itself. No woman wants to be called "brother" unless she knows it is ironic.

    As someone with "pencil arms" with no time to go to a gym (with most classmates in the same boat), seeing Joannie look as fit as she does is welcome, refreshing, and beautiful.
    Quote Originally Posted by zartian View Post
    Oops! I went too far! I myself am not the person who will ever call her brother. (I swear! ) I just saw some people saying that on the web and quoted that in order to emphasize that she is not particularly viewed as more feminine than the other skaters the original poster mentioned.

    If you think it is really offensive and would like me to delete my post, I'll do that. Just tell me.
    If zartian is referring to what I think she's talking about, then I would like to set the record here and clear any misunderstandings.

    In Korean culture and many Asian cultures, people are often addressed with titles and often in relation to the person speaking. For example, if I address a person in my line of work who has been on the job longer than I have, he or she is my senior and I would call him my 'sunbae'. For the opposite, I would call a junior worker my 'hoobae'. Those titles are often used in everyday life. Other titles that are more often used are "brother" and "sister". It can mean literally my blood brother and sister or someone who is close to me like a brother and sister.

    A male calls an older male: 'hyung'
    A male calls an older female: 'noona'
    A female calls an older male: 'oppa'
    A female calls an older female: 'unni'

    The word in question that some Korean figure skating fans call Joannie and other figure skaters is 'hyong'. It's similar to 'hyung' which a male will call an older male. It's not used in everyday language and I doubt many older adults would know that term. It is mostly used by younger people as internet slang.

    It has nothing to do whether the person we are calling 'hyong' is male/female or whether he or she is masculine or feminine. It has nothing to do with gender! It also does not matter whether the person using the term 'hyong' is male or female. Instead, it's a slang term to represent respect. Kind of like someone is 'boss'. The person is not literally your boss, but in slang terms, we can say boss to mean respect. In even more slangman terms, it's like saying 'HBIC' = Head Beyotch In Charge.

    In Korean online culture, netizens (male and female) can call anyone they really like and respect 'hyong'. It can be a singer, athlete, politician, writer, actor, literally anyone. Korean figure skating fans vary widely. (We aren't all mutually exclusive to Yuna ) Many of us call our favorites 'hyong' whether it is Johnny, Stephane, Joannie, D/S, S/S, and so on.

    I hope this clears things up and no one is offended by it!

  6. #426
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    Not to worry, Yu-Na fans: if Rochette gets 70 on her SP at the Olympics, Yu-Na will get an 82.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Not to worry, Yu-Na fans: if Rochette gets 70 on her SP at the Olympics, Yu-Na will get an 82.

  8. #428
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunrock View Post
    If zartian is referring to what I think she's talking about, then I would like to set the record here and clear any misunderstandings.

    In Korean culture and many Asian cultures, people are often addressed with titles and often in relation to the person speaking. For example, if I address a person in my line of work who has been on the job longer than I have, he or she is my senior and I would call him my 'sunbae'. For the opposite, I would call a junior worker my 'hoobae'. Those titles are often used in everyday life. Other titles that are more often used are "brother" and "sister". It can mean literally my blood brother and sister or someone who is close to me like a brother and sister.

    A male calls an older male: 'hyung'
    A male calls an older female: 'noona'
    A female calls an older male: 'oppa'
    A female calls an older female: 'unni'

    The word in question that some Korean figure skating fans call Joannie and other figure skaters is 'hyong'. It's similar to 'hyung' which a male will call an older male. It's not used in everyday language and I doubt many older adults would know that term. It is mostly used by younger people as internet slang.

    It has nothing to do whether the person we are calling 'hyong' is male/female or whether he or she is masculine or feminine. It has nothing to do with gender! It also does not matter whether the person using the term 'hyong' is male or female. Instead, it's a slang term to represent respect. Kind of like someone is 'boss'. The person is not literally your boss, but in slang terms, we can say boss to mean respect. In even more slangman terms, it's like saying 'HBIC' = Head Beyotch In Charge.

    In Korean online culture, netizens (male and female) can call anyone they really like and respect 'hyong'. It can be a singer, athlete, politician, writer, actor, literally anyone. Korean figure skating fans vary widely. (We aren't all mutually exclusive to Yuna ) Many of us call our favorites 'hyong' whether it is Johnny, Stephane, Joannie, D/S, S/S, and so on.

    I hope this clears things up and no one is offended by it!
    Interesting! Thanks.

    In Japanese pages, I see Joannie referred to as Big Sister using a character "姐" instead of "姉", like "Anego" "姐御(アネゴ)" or "Ne-san (姐さん)." Shizuka also gets these pet names just occasionally. Whereas "Ne-san" with "姉" refers to an older sister, "Ne-san" with "姐" often refers to female employees at restaurants, hotels, and those who work as a Geisya. "Anego(姐御)" with "姐" refers to either being a wife/lover of a Yakuza or a boss herself. If "姉" is used in "Anego" (姉御), it's just a very old usage for an "older sister". All these words are pretty traditional.

    When used in contemporary language, "Anego" "姐御(アネゴ)" and "Ne-san (姐さん)" with the character "姐" give a flavor of the female-version of the "dependable boss/big brother type". Their nuances may translate into a woman who is strong, dependable, decisive, has a warm heart. She would take good care of younger ppl. She also would live in a downtown.

    I haven't seen any other female skaters getting these pet names than Joannie or (occasionally) Shizuka.
    Last edited by Bennett; 11-24-2009 at 08:14 PM.

  9. #429
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by figurejennah View Post
    You know, actually Yuna's spiral is not that bad. People would consider it "ugly" because of her toe position, but when I saw it at SA, I thought it was
    simply gorgeous!!! She covered so much ice and was so fast that
    Yuna looked like a smiling little bird.

    It's too bad that the TV cannot capture that speed! So, what I do is
    I try to find all the fan cam videos of skaters on youtube, but they are more rare of course.
    Here's a clip of Yuna's Spiral from a fan cam version!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O16BfvlQD94

    And if someone has fan cam of Joannie, Mao or Alissa, please post on youtube!!!


    Sigh. agreed.
    No, I wasn't really saying it was bad. Just that it's my least favorite part of her program. I LOVE Yuna's skating and I know I was nitpicking ...
    Although now that we're on the subject ... what is up with her toe position? Is that something that is hard to fix? I'm honestly asking.

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